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First Competition...need help to put on mass

Bone Yard

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my goal is to get to 73kgs (after doin a shit). hopefully lean muscle, you reckon its possible to do it within 12 weeks?
 
PrinceVegeta

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so 3kg in 12 weeks....yeah should be feasible!...eat a lot and rest well...lots of liquids
 
The_KM

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So what u are saying is that by his wiegt he should only be eating 70kgx2.2=154 grams of protein in the bulk? that seems a bit low for me...i agree with high carbs but not with the protein approach...can u explain why u say this?

You, probably like most people overemphasize protein on a bulk. Only so much can aid in repairing and rebuilding muscle. The remaining is either converted to glucose and subjected to glycolysis, or stored as adipose tissue. For someone as light as him, it's almost impossible to keep within the 1g/lb of bw mark, especially if he uses dynamic grains as his primaril carbs. So there's exceptions.

Protein should not be a fuel source! And by consuming substantially large amounts, it is essentially that.
 
PrinceVegeta

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But i think it also depends on activity level and how hard he trains and how many times a week etc...

Boneyard: If I were you, I would try the 1 g/lb and if u dont feel like u recover well from workouts increase it to 1.5g/lb and decrease carbs a bit..that way u can be sure if what works best for you
 
PrinceVegeta

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But i think it also depends on activity level and how hard he trains and how many times a week etc...

Boneyard: If I were you, I would try the 1 g/lb and if u dont feel like u recover well from workouts increase it to 1.5g/lb and decrease carbs a bit..that way u can be sure if what works best for you
 
The_KM

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But i think it also depends on activity level and how hard he trains and how many times a week etc...

Activity level would require energy, right? Protein is not an energy source unless there is a deficiency in carbs.

How many times a week shouldn't affect that. Carbs are used as the fuel source during anaerobic activities, not protein. Though some studies insinuate that 30% or more of the energy utilized when lifting is through gluconeogenesis. Even so, the 1g/lb of bw mark is more than enough to reach hypertrophic needs.
 
PrinceVegeta

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^i didnt mean energy for the workouts i meant protein for recovering from all those sessions, if one trains 3x a week compared to 5 times week would require more protein to recover in those workouts, because postworkout protein isnt enough, 1 g/lbs too low IMO to recover from 5 workouts a week...
 
The_KM

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^i didnt mean energy for the workouts i meant protein for recovering from all those sessions, if one trains 3x a week compared to 5 times week would require more protein to recover in those workouts, because postworkout protein isnt enough, 1 g/lbs too low IMO to recover from 5 workouts a week...

1g/lb of bodyweight is quite sufficient, unfortunately you have the misconception that a bodybuilder's diet should be based around protein - which is inaccurate. I'm also not sure of your point, but if you'd like to post scientific research regarding your synopsis I'd be more than happy to read it. I'd do the same but it'd be repetitive, considering Tim has posted on more than one occasion, research regarding protein intake.
 
tim290280

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^^ Yes I've posted it many times, argued about it even more and still people quote Flex and Muscle and Fiction values of protein intake.

The actual intakes vary dependant upon activity level. The protein level is higher than RDA but lower than BBing publications. Generally it is 1.2-1.6 g/kg with 1.7 g/kg being the upper level. THAT IS GRAMS PER KILOGRAM not grams per pound.

Like I said read here:
https://musclemecca.com/showthread.php/210490-Tailoring-Nutrient-Intake-to-Exercise-Goals
Further science on protein:
https://musclemecca.com/showthread.php/203942-Tipton-protein-nutrition-abstracts
 

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bambam55

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Bone Yard forgive me if I missed this, but how old are? Also height and weight?
 
Bone Yard

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you alright mate..

im 21..im 167cm, bout 5'9 - 5'10 and im 69kgs at the moment.
 
PrinceVegeta

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1g/lb of bodyweight is quite sufficient, unfortunately you have the misconception that a bodybuilder's diet should be based around protein - which is inaccurate. I'm also not sure of your point, but if you'd like to post scientific research regarding your synopsis I'd be more than happy to read it. I'd do the same but it'd be repetitive, considering Tim has posted on more than one occasion, research regarding protein intake.

Protein requirement does change when doing more trainings in a week like Tim illustrated in the post above of this, i just wasnt sure of the amounts really required, could you send me the research which illustrates this better?

@ Tim, thanks tim for your input in the subject, i understand now


This is healthy discussion that we only benefit of!
 
The_KM

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Protein requirement does change when doing more trainings in a week.

Could you explain to me how? I can see why someone would fluctuate calories, but protein can remain stable throughout the week. There is no RDA protein allotment that is for every specialized training regime in the world!


Tim illustrated in the post above of this, i just wasnt sure of the amounts really required, could you send me the research which illustrates this better

If you don't understand the amount required, how can you insist protein should be "1.5g/lb of bw" for people who... "train hard"..?

Tim's point helped provide reinforcement for my statement, because I'm not sure of your argument quite honestly. If you're training 4x/wk, you aren't going to accredit your protein take to compensate. Digestion doesn't occur right when you ingest it, it's over a 4-7 hour period, so protein synthesis will not be upregulated just because you've thrown more protein in your diet.

Calories are responsible for overall recovery, not just protein.

Here are some abstracts:

AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism, Vol 273, Issue 1

An abundant supply of amino acids enhances the metabolic effect of exercise on muscle protein

G. Biolo, K. D. Tipton, S. Klein and R. R. Wolfe


Six normal untrained men were studied during the intravenous infusion of a balanced amino acid mixture (approximately 0.15 g.kg-1.h-1 for 3 h) at rest and after a leg resistance exercise routine to test the influence of exercise on the regulation of muscle protein kinetics by hyperaminoacidemia. Leg muscle protein kinetics and transport of selected amino acids (alanine, phenylalanine, leucine, and lysine) were isotopically determined using a model based on arteriovenous blood samples and muscle biopsy. The intravenous amino acid infusion resulted in comparable increases in arterial amino acid concentrations at rest and after exercise, whereas leg blood flow was 64 +/- 5% greater after exercise than at rest. During hyperaminoacidemia, the increases in amino acid transport above basal were 30-100% greater after exercise than at rest. Increases in muscle protein synthesis were also greater after exercise than at rest (291 +/- 42% vs. 141 +/- 45%). Muscle protein breakdown was not significantly affected by hyperminoacidemia either at rest or after exercise. We conclude that the stimulatory effect of exogenous amino acids on muscle protein synthesis is enhanced by prior exercise, perhaps in part because of enhanced blood flow. Our results imply that protein intake immediately after exercise may be more anabolic than when ingested at some later time.

And for further explanation on the entire topic:

Protein and amino acids for athletes
Authors: Kevin Tipton; Robert Wolfe
Source: Journal of Sports Sciences, Volume 22, Number 1, January 2004 , pp. 65-79(15)

The main determinants of an athlete's protein needs are their training regime and habitual nutrient intake. Most athletes ingest sufficient protein in their habitual diet. Additional protein will confer only a minimal, albeit arguably important, additional advantage. Given sufficient energy intake, lean body mass can be maintained within a wide range of protein intakes. Since there is limited evidence for harmful effects of a high protein intake and there is a metabolic rationale for the efficacy of an increase in protein, if muscle hypertrophy is the goal, a higher protein intake within the context of an athlete's overall dietary requirements may be beneficial. However, there are few convincing outcome data to indicate that the ingestion of a high amount of protein (2-3 g • kg-1 BW • day-1, where BW = body weight) is necessary. Current literature suggests that it may be too simplistic to rely on recommendations of a particular amount of protein per day. Acute studies suggest that for any given amount of protein, the metabolic response is dependent on other

Sorry for the sly, attitudinal post, but this exact discussion must have been repeated a dozen times.
 
PrinceVegeta

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No need to apologize for being passionate in what u love man, i read those articles and now have a better understanding of how it all is.

It's just that u also hear everywhere that protein is key blah blah blah

And I am one that only recently started reading all the threads in this section so i have never seen this discussion about the amount of protein. Bot in depth anyways

Thanx for the great atricles man, keep them coming so we can all benefit from what u have learned!
 
The_KM

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No need to apologize for being passionate in what u love man, i read those articles and now have a better understanding of how it all is.

It's just that u also hear everywhere that protein is key blah blah blah

And I am one that only recently started reading all the threads in this section so i have never seen this discussion about the amount of protein. Bot in depth anyways

Thanx for the great atricles man, keep them coming so we can all benefit from what u have learned!

It's totally cool bro, I understand... I just got a little heated that's all. And sorry again for the condescending attitude, you didn't deserve it :xyxthumbs:
 
tim290280

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you alright mate..

im 21..im 167cm, bout 5'9 - 5'10 and im 69kgs at the moment.

Sorry but what is your height? You have given three there. (167cm is just under 5'6")
 
PrinceVegeta

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^^ i thought the same thing...5'10" would be 178-179 cm's...

Which are you?
 
bambam55

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Eat Big and Lift Big, cant beat that combo.
 
Bone Yard

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sorry i dont know how to convert that, im 170cm.ill post pics soonish.
 
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