Ironslave's top 10 greatest athletes ever

[Ironslave]

Nice list and write ups IS.I mostly dont agree w your list ,but its interesting atleast.Repped

Which is perfectly fine. . but anyway, if some people want to come up with their own top 10 threads, even without the write ups, please do so!

I'm really confused as to why there is arguing in this thread

Simple, because Duality is posting in it

 

[Ironslave]

i disagree with the bold portion of this statement and i'll tell you why and this is my arguement against the female ironslave has at #4. they seperate male and female competitors for a reason, correct? this is to promote a even and competitive playing field. so in my mind, a women can never be considered one of the greatest athletes ever because their competition is not the greatest in the world (and i mean greatest, not greatest for a woman, see what i'm saying) this is an unfair characteristic of life that both sexes are not created equal. even if a woman does dominate her sport, the fact that she is doing it against less than the best means she can not be considered one of the greatest ever to play the sport. she can however be considered the greatest female to ever play the sport.


example: did you know that legally the NBA, NFL, or PGA cannot discriminate due to sex? technically if a woman is good enough, she can make an NBA team

however because a woman has never made one of these pro teams (or in annika sorenstam's case, not done well at all) based entirly off of physical ability, leagues were then formed to make competition fairer for women as seen in the LPGA and WNBA.

So again by your logic, would a fighter like Sugar Ray Robinson, a welterweight, not belong on the list of greatest boxers ever? Because undoubtedly, if you put him in against a heavyweight, he'd probably get pounded.

 

[Braaq]

This has somehow become a very controversial list/subject.. I think Duality should make his own top 10. And he can defend it just like IS, I honestly think that would be a good idea that way we know where he is coming from. And those that also object can.
Duality, what do you think bro? You down to give it a go? You know a lot about sports, more than me, I am wanting to see it so I really think you should

 

[tkD]

great n1 athlete IS!!! i was expecting for Tiger Woods, and damn you're right, he was born to re-invent golf omg, only a few athletes are making history like Woods, Pele in soccer, Jordan in basketball, Ali in boxing and so on, great top 10 bro, i enjoyed it a lot
repped you for Tiger's great write up, i don't remember if it was neg or positive ...lol jk

 

[Tonyk212000]

Personally I agree with IS on his asessment. Ive played Basketball, Baseball, Soccer, Cross Country and Golf for school sports. I feel im a pretty good athlete and did very well at the sports. In basketball I went to the WRC finals and eventually lost :crymeariver: Soccer we played 12 games and I scored 10 goals that season. WHat im tryinhg to say by this is I did very well in the other sports except golf (which was my best sport). This by no means is saying I was bad at golf during my senior year at highschool, my handicap was a 4. I played as the number 1 man and 2 man on my team and also played on a junior tour with 3 or 4 of the best players under 19 in the country. I played in the state championship and didnt even make it past the first stage and during my junior tours I didnt even make it to the tour championship because golf is that hard. What im trying to say by this post is golf is my best sport and for some reason I never accomplished anything by it because it is that hard.

Personally its a little upsetting that you (duality) are saying it requires very little to know athletic ability. Have you seen Tiger Woods? Throw out some other names Camillo Villegas and Jonathan Byrd. All three of these guys are very good athletic specimens. Not to mention golfers are some of the most flexible athletes in the world. Even John Daly who is quite large O and one thing no one is mentioning about this is the mental toughness it requires to play golf IE: Tiger Woods being the most mentally tough athlete in the world.

 

[Ironslave]

This has somehow become a very controversial list/subject.. I think Duality should make his own top 10. And he can defend it just like IS, I honestly think that would be a good idea that way we know where he is coming from. And those that also object can.
Duality, what do you think bro? You down to give it a go? You know a lot about sports, more than me, I am wanting to see it so I really think you should

Agreed, I'll be the first to admit this list is subjective, but as usual, I think Duality is being too closed minded and living too in the present with regards to what athletes have done over the years.

 

[JS316]

i'm going to be presumptious here, i'm betting your going to respond telling me the golf swing is one of the hardest and most technical movements to master, and i agree. but that is the ONLY facet of the game. the jumpshot is arguably one of the most technical movements to master as well, however that is just ONE of the MANY (many) facets the game of basketball requires: defense, conditioning, athletic talent, speed, dexterity, memorization of plays, ball handling. the same cannot be said for golf. really IS it cannot.

There is not just one golf swing to master. There would be more types of golf swings/shots to master than basketball shots(With alot of different types of clubs). Heaps more. The margin for error in Golf is tiny.

You can't say it the ONLY facet. Having the perfect swing doesn't give you the right to judge the wind, read the different types of greens, choose the right club. It would be alot easier if there was only one golf hole to play that was the same size every match, same surface and same dynamics... kinda like basketball. But, infact there are millions of golf holes, and if you do play the same one more than once, you would probably have to read it slightly different each time.

 

[Duality]

Originally posted by Tim290280
It isn't technically the same sport, they play in a womens league. In the golf example they play off of different course positions (bringing different factors and elements into play), often entirely different courses to the men. THe only true example of the same sport I can think of (off the top of my head) is track and field. This is why I acknowledged the fact that women and men are different and should be viewed as such, as the women aren't the same athletes. But to say that they are some how less great due to their gender is to say that the women's competition is a joke, which it is not.

this was really the only part of your post i disagree with. your saying that leagues such as the LPGA and WNBA are different sports? (in a way)? how so, because the women play with a smaller ball in the WNBA? the only changes we see between men and womens' leagues are slight differences that are tailored for the women that are too make the game easier (ie the WNBA ball being a junior size ball, 28.5" i think compared to the mens 29.5", yet they both play on the same size rim). but the sport being played is in essence the same.

Yes this was what I was saying. You have to compare apples with apples, not oranges and pears and apples. Jack Nicklaus was previously the best golfer in the world and still has more title than Tiger Woods. Why is he not regarded as the best still (since he does hold more titles)? Because Tiger has done it on harder courses against more competition. Yet you can't compare the two easily as technology has changed etc, and they have never played against each other in their respective primes. There were also several great historic golfers that dominated when they still had regular jobs, played with hickory stick clubs, etc. They really need to be put in a play off with Woods and Nicklaus to decide whom is the greatest golfer.

I'm saying that you can't say that X athlete is not as good because they can't hack it against Y athletes. By that assertion all other factors that limited athletes and any comparisons suddenly becomes valid. I could claim that Tiger Woods isn't as good as Bobby Jones because Bobby had it tougher. How do you compare the achievements of golfers in the era of the featherie ball, a sewn leather sphere stuffed with feathers, to the modern era of aerodynamically tested Surlyn balls and titanium-shafted clubs? How do you rank players who had different opportunities to win championships? Or those who competed before there were large money purses or, indeed, any at all?

No doesn't change what we accept from you. It just means that your opinion is very much formed from a limited knowledge base. While this is true of a lot of people (old and young) you do tend to grasp an awareness of what you don't know with age.

good points. can't say i really disagree with you.

 

[Duality]

So again by your logic, would a fighter like Sugar Ray Robinson, a welterweight, not belong on the list of greatest boxers ever? Because undoubtedly, if you put him in against a heavyweight, he'd probably get pounded.

meh....that's actually a good example and is a good counterpoint. me personally this is how i would asses such a list: yes he does deserve to be on the list, but cannot be deemed the "greatest" or #1 on said list. to me being the greatest would mean that no matter who you faced, if i was a betting man i would never wage against that individual. undisputedly the best boxer in the world with the titles and accolades to back it up. see what i'm saying? what i'm saying is unfair to the welterweight i know, but that's how it is. the fact of the matter is that the heavyweight is the superior fighter and should be ranked as such.

 

[Duality]

This has somehow become a very controversial list/subject.. I think Duality should make his own top 10. And he can defend it just like IS, I honestly think that would be a good idea that way we know where he is coming from. And those that also object can.
Duality, what do you think bro? You down to give it a go? You know a lot about sports, more than me, I am wanting to see it so I really think you should

you know what i just might do that. there's little else i take this much interest in and it would be fun to see what others had to say on it.

Originally posted by Tweak
I'm really confused as to why there is arguing in this thread

oh please. how boring would it be if everyone just said "awesome list IS!!! totally agree with you on everything! though i disagree with a placing here and there i won't say anything seeing as confrontation/debate on a forum is just crazy talk :methman:"

Originally posted by Ironslave
Simple, because Duality is posting in it

 

[Ironslave]

meh....that's actually a good example and is a good counterpoint. me personally this is how i would asses such a list: yes he does deserve to be on the list, but cannot be deemed the "greatest" or #1 on said list. to me being the greatest would mean that no matter who you faced, if i was a betting man i would never wage against that individual. undisputedly the best boxer in the world with the titles and accolades to back it up. see what i'm saying? what i'm saying is unfair to the welterweight i know, but that's how it is. the fact of the matter is that the heavyweight is the superior fighter and should be ranked as such.

Of course, that's why it's a subjective list. I'd strongly disagree having athletes like Iverson and Peterson on the list, because they really haven't accomplished much at all. But if you wanted to put someone like Brown or Thorpe at number 1, I'd have no argument against this really, both were freaks of nature. I said that my criteria placed a LOT of weight on the cultural impact they had, but even still, no athlete EVER has been as impressive as Tiger Woods.

But with regards to the welterweight, again you have to keep it in the context of that competition. The most likely candidate for best American freestyle wrestler, and easily arguable for the greatest wrestler of all time was John Smith, and he weighed 62kg! (140 lbs). If you put him against Kurt Angle (who competed in the 100kg class, up to 220 lbs), obviously, Kurt would just smoke him. But you won't find anyone outside of WWE fans who would argue that Kurt was even close to the wrestler John Smith was.

Just like today, you won't have anybody argue that the Heavyweight Boxing Champion (whoever he is, if boxing still even has a heavyweight title) was even close to being as good as Sugar Ray Robinson was, even though in a fight, they'd pound Sugar Ray into a pulp.

I would be curious to see your list though....

 

[Clint]

the reason why I'm so confused and think Duality is a crazy man is because this list is Ironslaves opinion, Duality its not like its actual fact calm down dude, its IS opinion, its HIS Top 10 Greatest Athletes.

You're like an English teacher that tells students to write a fiction story, then when you grade you tell them "this is flawed, thats physically impossible"

take a breath, count to 472, touch some titties, and rub one out, it will be ok.

 

[Line]

I'm choosing to ignore many responses in this thread seeing how prior arguments made in the same vain against certain athletes and sports were equally tired and trite. Bravo to IS! A great list and fitting conclusion.

 

[Tonyk212000]

count to 472

 

[Pioneer]

Yes, yes it is harder to become an elite golfer than most other sports. Golf has the most participants of any sport on the planet, has the most professional and semi-professional athletes and requires a large skillset and ability to just be consistent let alone dominate.

WTF? Yea lets just forgot about Football ( i mean actuall Football where you actually use your feet). Football is by far the biggest sport in the world. (The World Cup is bigger than the Olympic's). It is a lot harder to make it big in the largest sport in the world then it is in any other sport.

Not saying Tiger Woods isnt good or golf is easy but you are crazy to think its harder to make the big time in golf then it is in Football. SO SO SO much more competition in Football than golf and plus golf in some ways is limited to who actually even gets a chance to play it... how many golf course's you know about in for example Ghana? but yet their Football team is great because almost every person in the world has a chance to play Football and this is why Football is the greatest sport in the world, why it is the World Game, why it is bigger than the Olmypics, why it is watched more than any other sport, why is it harder to make it big in the sport than any other. And seriously you cant really argue this.

Edit: Sorry Tim over looked the fact you said "most". I'm guessing/hoping you are reffering to Football as being one of the bigger/harder sports to make a name in.

 

[Tonyk212000]

WTF? Yea lets just forgot about Football ( i mean actuall Football where you actually use your feet). Football is by far the biggest sport in the world. (The World Cup is bigger than the Olympic's). It is a lot harder to make it big in the largest sport in the world then it is in any other sport.

Not saying Tiger Woods isnt good or golf is easy but you are crazy to think its harder to make the big time in golf then it is in Football. SO SO SO much more competition in Football than golf and plus golf in some ways is limited to who actually even gets a chance to play it

Do you even know what requires to become a pro. Do you even know that there are 75% of pros that dont play on tours? You can be a pro in golf and not even be close to allowed to play on tour thats how hard it is.

 

[Pioneer]

Do you even know what requires to become a pro. Do you even know that there are 75% of pros that dont play on tours? You can be a pro in golf and not even be close to allowed to play on tour thats how hard it is.

I understand what you are saying but it still doesn't make Golf come close to Football. But do you know how many Football clubs there are in Europe ? do you know how many of them make it into the Champions League? do you know how big as far as significance is concerned the champions league is?

 

[Ironslave]

Also understand where you are coming from, Pioneer, but you need to look at how hard it is to win in golf, and especially win at the level Tiger is doing, it's unlike anything that has ever been done in sports.

The margin of error in golf is the absolute smallest in all of sports, by far. Hockey, soccer(football), basketball, tennis, pretty much anything along those lines, you miss a shot by a little bit, oh well, it can still go in, and you may still even score. In golf, you miss a shot by even the slightest degree, on what is an extremely complex motor task, and the ball may go flying into a lake, and cost you an entire round/tournament.

There are 32 teams in the champions league, yes? That works against it, because it is much much easier to make a league of 32 teams, than it is to play on the PGA tour and finish in the top 150 on the money list.

There is NO harder sport than golf to "make it big" in.

 

[Tonyk212000]

Also understand where you are coming from, Pioneer, but you need to look at how hard it is to win in golf, and especially win at the level Tiger is doing, it's unlike anything that has ever been done in sports.

The margin of error in golf is the absolute smallest in all of sports, by far. Hockey, soccer(football), basketball, tennis, pretty much anything along those lines, you miss a shot by a little bit, oh well, it can still go in, and you may still even score. In golf, you miss a shot by even the slightest degree, on what is an extremely complex motor task, and the ball may go flying into a lake, and cost you an entire round/tournament.

There are 32 teams in the champions league, yes? That works against it, because it is much much easier to make a league of 32 teams, than it is to play on the PGA tour and finish in the top 150 on the money list.

There is NO harder sport than golf to "make it big" in.

Thank you

I am probally the only person on this forum who has played competetive golf and I can attest it is ridulously hard.

 

[Pioneer]

There are 32 teams in the champions league, yes? That works against it, because it is much much easier to make a league of 32 teams, than it is to play on the PGA tour and finish in the top 150 on the money list.

There is a redicoulous amount of pro Football clubs in Europe eg. in England Premiere Leauge then First Division, Second Devision etc they are all tying to make into (or stay in the) top league of England then make the top 4 of that and even then 2 of those 4 still need to play extra games to make the CL. So with a squad consisting of around 22 players trying to make it into a tournament where only 32 teams play from all over Europe. From an individual point of view its is harder to make it in Football.

Also don't want to turn this into a huge argument. So if you guys want to post your opinion thats fine but i cant be bothered arguing it.