Kai signs with Weider

[Line]

Guys, keep the personal insults and sexual speculations to a minimum. There's a way to discuss Kai's past with a bit of tact, which no one is displaying any of here.

 

[BigBen]

TDK.... Guys what can be said about a person, TDK, who has to continually give attention to a persons past as if to attempt to take value away from the person in the present time? Bodybuilding fans seem to be largely indifferent or ignorant of Kai Greene's past.

As a fan I fully acknowledge and accept the fact that Kai did do the type of work he chose to do to supplement his income. I could care less how he chose to supplement his income b/c it it HIS income and as far as i know he never caused harm to anyone by doing so. I also acknowledge and accept the fact that he will go down in the bodybuilding history book for all the titles he has won. It is obvious that TDK has some problem with Kai b/c he tries to take value away from Kai every chance he is allowed.

Personally you could remind me of what ever you wanted to remind me of every chance you got, but it does not take away from any of the titles Kai has won, or the fact that he beat Victor, branch, Phil and a lot of other top names this year either.


I would like to hear the purpose of bring up anyones past to be used as a tool to take away from that persons current value? Not only does TDK bring up Kai's past but TDK makes these attempts most commonly when good news is being spread about Kai. TDK, are you simple enough to be not like someone because they do not have the same morals as you do?

I am curious are you homophobic, racist, mad b/c Kai does not share the same morals as you and is successful or do you have some other reason for always bringing up old news? Why should I care about Kai's choice to make money? Why does that matter? I need those questions answered before I can entertain the idea of giving your thoughts any value what so ever. I am all ears, and I would love to hear your reasons for your posts about Kai.

 

[Pickle]

tkd isnt a racist. From his critiques im pretty sure he just doesn't like kais physique, stomach distention and his poor presentation in some of his posing i.e leg spread overhead and poor execution of front double bis. He brings up kais past in a way to mock team kai because tkd thinks kai is overated.

The grapefruit will hit the fan for tkd,tim123234324 and others when kai wins the O this year. lol

 

[Line]

Guys, keep the personal insults and sexual speculations to a minimum. There's a way to discuss Kai's past with a bit of tact, which no one is displaying any of here.

Seriously, guys. This thread is all but closed. Keep it civil.

 

[dilatedmuscle]

I dont care what kai did/does. I like what he has done in terms of bodybuilding and i hope to see him do better. That being said, he may not win the olympia but he is still an awesome competitor and i hope he does win the olympia.

 

[tim290280]

I don't think it's our right to judge guys such Kai for what they did in their past , we all know how he lived until getting sponsorship . He did gay shows for money to keep himself on the track in bodybuilding , not for buying a car or bling-blings ; the only thing he had was his body and he used it , he earned from his body just to afford to continue investing in it and get to the top. That's my point.

And lets be honest: Kai = 2 times ASC winner , 4th place @ Mr. O. And these forum posters are what ? Why can't just congratulate guys like Kai ?

Sorry if my english is bad.

I disagree with most of what you have said here. There are always plenty of options for work, what you do and have done reflects upon you. Now I'm not saying Kai's past is unforgiveable, but in terms of Kai's marketability for mainstream attraction of new fans to BBing I see issues. The more I see of Kai the more I see that he is easily manipulated by those around him, so I can see him being conned into his G4P videos and shoots with much regret on his part later on.

As for what others have achieved; how is that relevant? People here may not have achieved an admirable list of BBing titles, but who is to say they have been any less successful in their field of choice. Remind me again how many degrees Kai has, how much property he owns, how long he's been married, how many kids he has raised, etc, etc.

TDK.... Guys what can be said about a person, TDK, who has to continually give attention to a persons past as if to attempt to take value away from the person in the present time? Bodybuilding fans seem to be largely indifferent or ignorant of Kai Greene's past.

We are a who we are as a result of our past. It also shows alot about the sorts of decisions we make, especially when under pressure.

As a fan I fully acknowledge and accept the fact that Kai did do the type of work he chose to do to supplement his income. I could care less how he chose to supplement his income b/c it it HIS income and as far as i know he never caused harm to anyone by doing so. I also acknowledge and accept the fact that he will go down in the bodybuilding history book for all the titles he has won. It is obvious that TDK has some problem with Kai b/c he tries to take value away from Kai every chance he is allowed.

Kai had many options for supplemental income. His choice is not a private matter as he sold himself to the media industry, as any modelling shoot does. People can judge the folly of this, or the standing that places him in now.

Personally you could remind me of what ever you wanted to remind me of every chance you got, but it does not take away from any of the titles Kai has won, or the fact that he beat Victor, branch, Phil and a lot of other top names this year either.

Agreed. He won those titles, beat those people. But has he tarnished his marketability to the mainstream; those who are like vultures for "shady" pasts.

I would like to hear the purpose of bring up anyones past to be used as a tool to take away from that persons current value? Not only does TDK bring up Kai's past but TDK makes these attempts most commonly when good news is being spread about Kai. TDK, are you simple enough to be not like someone because they do not have the same morals as you do?

Kai's past does take away from his current standing. When push came to shove he went G4P. When I was broke I had already made provisions through careful savings and was able to pick up some unpaid work that kept a roof over my head and food on the table. Some people become labourers, some people strip naked on the internet, which choice you make says a lot about who you are. His choice is also something that affects his marketability as a pro-BBer. Clearly though Weider no longer thinks this.

I am curious are you homophobic, racist, mad b/c Kai does not share the same morals as you and is successful or do you have some other reason for always bringing up old news? Why should I care about Kai's choice to make money? Why does that matter? I need those questions answered before I can entertain the idea of giving your thoughts any value what so ever. I am all ears, and I would love to hear your reasons for your posts about Kai.

I know this isn't a question for me, but I don't care about race, culture, creed or orientation. What does concern me is that Kai is currently ashamed of his past, he did G4P whilst stating he is hetero, his morals are clearly (possibly) in line with the discussion here.

 

[BigBen]

I disagree with most of what you have said here. There are always plenty of options for work, what you do and have done reflects upon you. Now I'm not saying Kai's past is unforgiveable, but in terms of Kai's marketability for mainstream attraction of new fans to BBing I see issues. The more I see of Kai the more I see that he is easily manipulated by those around him, so I can see him being conned into his G4P videos and shoots with much regret on his part later on.

What caused you to think he needs to be forgiven in the first place. I directed the comment towards you Tim but I would say that to anyone who made that comment that I bolded.

As for what others have achieved; how is that relevant? People here may not have achieved an admirable list of BBing titles, but who is to say they have been any less successful in their field of choice. Remind me again how many degrees Kai has, how much property he owns, how long he's been married, how many kids he has raised, etc, etc.

Sure, I agree, Kai chose the path of a professional athlete. But we are talking about Kai and his career choice is bbing so the titles are relevant to determine his success.


We are a who we are as a result of our past. It also shows alot about the sorts of decisions we make, especially when under pressure.

I feel like you are trying to say their is something objectively wrong with the decisions Kai has made in his life, and I do not understand how you can possibly make that claim without subjecting him to some cultural, moral, or sociological ideal which can never be universally agreed upon.

Kai had many options for supplemental income. His choice is not a private matter as he sold himself to the media industry, as any modelling shoot does. People can judge the folly of this, or the standing that places him in now.
Of course people are allowed to do this, but for what purpose? What causes a person to just let minor things exist without subjecting them to some verbal judgment.

Subjecting a person to any personal belief, in this case most likely some sort of morality, is nothing more than masturbation and self reaffirmation in ones own belief system.

People take part in this because it makes them feel good. Even if the basis for judgment is not a moral basis the judgment is still based on some belief, business or otherwise and again the purpose is to legitimize the beliefs of those doing the judging. This process will, in almost all cases, favor of the person doing the judging as to make them appear more valuable in some way or another than the person they are judging. This process of feeling value does not have to be a conscience one, but it is very much present in the process of affirming personal beliefs.

Agreed. He won those titles, beat those people. But has he tarnished his marketability to the mainstream; those who are like vultures for "shady" pasts.
Bodybuilding is not really mean stream in the first place, but I can agree that some people will not deal with him because of one belief or another they have not agreeing with what Kai did. Again what caused you or anyone else to say Kai's past was shady? Morality.


Kai's past does take away from his current standing. When push came to shove he went G4P.

I have a lot I would like to address here. First we never saw Kai do anything that can be considered homosexual. Did he do some things we can call kinky, yes.

"When I was broke I had already made provisions through careful savings and was able to pick up some unpaid work that kept a roof over my head and food on the table."

Fair enough, but you are not Kai, and Kai is not you. You two did not have the same childhood. You two did not have the same young adult and adult hood. You two were not in the same class socially or economically, i am guessing you were not poor and i apologize if I am wrong. You two learned two different ways of living and you two learned two different moralities. Being different from one another does not make either person more right or wrong than the other, it makes them different. This idea that their is a right way and a wrong way of living a life in a capitalistic society with in the boundary of the law is silly. The only real reason that Kai is being criticized is b/c he chose a way that was not popular.



"Some people become labourers, some people strip naked on the internet, which choice you make says a lot about who you are."

I feel like you think their is a right decision between the two, and I would not agree if you thought so.



"His choice is also something that affects his marketability as a pro-BBer. Clearly though Weider no longer thinks this."


That is unfortunate of it is true. B/c it shows that, in large, individuals are incapable of creating their own thoughts and how strongly we are still influenced by religion, tradition(family based, race based), pop culture, and news media when it comes to setting our moral standards.





I know this isn't a question for me, but I don't care about race, culture, creed or orientation. What does concern me is that Kai is currently ashamed of his past, he did G4P whilst stating he is hetero, his morals are clearly (possibly) in line with the discussion here.

When did Kai have sex with a man? And honestly I am not confident that Kai is ashamed of anything. Is it not possible that Kai is aware of the fact that being labeled as 'gay' or 'heterosexual' could effect his career one way or another, thus effecting his goals.

 

[tim290280]

^^ I agree that morality is an individual thing and that it does shape the way we view others actions. But by that very notion you are saying that either:

a) Kai shouldn't be ashamed because of what he did (like Arnie wasn't ashamed to have posed for gay stick mags) and we shouldn't be shocked by it either.

b) The morality of our majority (i.e. the mainstream) is wrong.

The problem with point A is that Kai's performance is infamous. Clearly people do think that what he did was out there. If it were just another nude shoot people would have dismissed it like they have dismissed JoJ's shoot for the same site.

Also I'd just like to point out that G4P is inherrant in the kind of posing and videos Kai did for a gay muscle fetish site. He isn't modelling (nude or otherwise) in the traditional sense, he is performing. As a result the material was never aimed at a mixed audience. Now if he had just posed nude or scantily clad (sorry but is that the right terminology for male erotica?) for a gay site or for a photographer that sold those pics/videos on then we would have a completely different situation.

 

[Line]

We are a who we are as a result of our past. It also shows alot about the sorts of decisions we make, especially when under pressure.

My model would look more like this:

We are who we are as a result of our past, the decisions made therein, and what we've learned about ourselves as a result of the decisions we've made, relevant to the environments we were in when making them.

 

[tim290280]

My model would look more like this:

 

[mvsf1]

The point here is that Kai is not being judged as a gay, bisexual or heterosexual.

He is a bodybuilder and he is being judged (only) as a bodybuilder: remember he is two times ASC champ.

 

[tkD]

I am curious are you homophobic, racist, mad b/c Kai does not share the same morals as you and is successful or do you have some other reason for always bringing up old news? Why should I care about Kai's choice to make money? Why does that matter? I need those questions answered before I can entertain the idea of giving your thoughts any value what so ever. I am all ears, and I would love to hear your reasons for your posts about Kai.

Racist? again??? hahaha man you're obviously still mad since the last time before the O when I posted something about Kai, and no matter how many times I told you, and no matter who are my favs in this sport you still called me a racist just because I don't like Kai.

It's ok, I can't have respect for him and and the other ones who choose G4P to make money instead of a normal job or some education, like other GREAT champs did, BigEbn.

anyway Pickle and Tim said it better in the later posts, things like his posing, physique..etc etc, that I don't like about Kai.

 

[BigBen]

Racist? again??? hahaha man you're obviously still mad since the last time before the O when I posted something about Kai, and no matter how many times I told you, and no matter who are my favs in this sport you still called me a racist just because I don't like Kai.

It's ok, I can't have respect for him and and the other ones who choose G4P to make money instead of a normal job or some education, like other GREAT champs did, BigEbn.

anyway Pickle and Tim said it better in the later posts, things like his posing, physique..etc etc, that I don't like about Kai.

I did not call you racist. I simply brought it up as a possibility, you choce to address only that issue.

So I can put you on ignore and not miss anything is what I have gathered from your post.

 

[BigBen]

^^ I agree that morality is an individual thing and that it does shape the way we view others actions. But by that very notion you are saying that either:

a) Kai shouldn't be ashamed because of what he did (like Arnie wasn't ashamed to have posed for gay stick mags) and we shouldn't be shocked by it either.

b) The morality of our majority (i.e. the mainstream) is wrong.

Choice A I definitely agree with. I will reword choice B and you will have hit the nail on the head,Tim. I cannot say that one morality is correct and that another is incorrect, I will say they are both different and belief in one or the other has different consequences.

 

[Zviko]

We are a who we are as a result of our past. It also shows alot about the sorts of decisions we make, especially when under pressure.

And we have the capacity to change certain aspects of our current standing, our future and our behaviour and actions... I havent been in Kai's life don't personally know him just know of him through MD, Youtube, snd Musclemecca basically the internet so why should I make inferences and blatant judgements about him his life and mental standings?

Interesting How these moral arguments come up mostly with Kai threads but good news for Kai I suppose. I'm happy for him

 

[tkD]

I did not call you racist. I simply brought it up as a possibility, you choce to address only that issue.

So I can put you on ignore and not miss anything is what I have gathered from your post.

Good. I can say/and do the same about a fanatic Kai fan like you lol.

 

[tim290280]

And we have the capacity to change certain aspects of our current standing, our future and our behaviour and actions... I havent been in Kai's life don't personally know him just know of him through MD, Youtube, snd Musclemecca basically the internet so why should I make inferences and blatant judgements about him his life and mental standings?

Interesting How these moral arguments come up mostly with Kai threads but good news for Kai I suppose. I'm happy for him

I could argue that we don't have the capacity for change. Humans have shown time and time again that they will make the same mistakes continuously throughout life and generations. But I also know that this statement doesn't hold true for everyone, as progressive and successful people tend to learn from their mistakes and grow into stronger people.

I won't comment on whether this applies to Kai because, as you pointed out, we don't know Kai. But what I will say is that the "morality issue" (which I don't actually think it is, Ben does, I think it is an image issue) comes up with Kai for a couple of reasons. First is the fact that he has gone from stripper to pro BBer very successfully. This gets some people offside due to that morality issue, I personally don't care. Secondly is the G4P video. This one is a different kettle of fish because of the fetish nature of the video. What gets me about this sort of thing is the impact it has on the sport. BBing is already regarded by most as a freak-show and weird, if a champion pro BBer and possible Mr O is doing fetish videos then it just confirms mainstream opinions and further drives BBing out of gyms (that we have popularised), further out of the media, and makes us a laughing stock.

We become further marginalised because of the actions of someone in the industry being held to represent the industry. Tiger Woods didn't bring golf into disrepute, he brought himself into disrepute. Unfortunately BBing doesn't have the profile golf does, so BBing is tarred with the same brush as Kai. Is it wrong for Kai to make a fetish video; no. Does that video reflect poorly on the sport of BBing; yes. Yes because it just compounds the sordid underbelly of the sport and shines a spotlight on it for the mainstream to further malign BBing (The same can be said for drug use). But why sordid if this isn't a morality issue? Well simply put you are associating BBing with fetishism, with the fringe of society, and not with the sport of BBing. This makes BBing supposedly less accessible as you are the fringe of the fringe, this makes BBing marginalised from acceptability.

 

[kn609]

While reading this thread, I was wondering how fast a person could find out about Kai Greene's past if they were curious. I didn't think it was really that well known, but it's the first thing that comes up if you type Kai Greene in google.

 

[tim290280]

^^ My point exactly.

 

[dilatedmuscle]

Racist? again??? hahaha man you're obviously still mad since the last time before the O when I posted something about Kai, and no matter how many times I told you, and no matter who are my favs in this sport you still called me a racist just because I don't like Kai.

It's ok, I can't have respect for him and and the other ones who choose G4P to make money instead of a normal job or some education, like other GREAT champs did, BigEbn.

anyway Pickle and Tim said it better in the later posts, things like his posing, physique..etc etc, that I don't like about Kai.

You can't have respect for me? Thats uncalled for. Its not my fault dirty old men offer me thousands of dollars to fuck a cantalope... Sure beats going to school for 4+ years just to end up in a cubicle of an office that has a shitty copy machine and nightmares of my boss screwing my girlfriend while sipping on coffee.