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protein quantity per serving

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jguruz

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Hi guys, just had a question regarding protein shake consumption, i'm currently using optimum nutritions pro complex with 60g per serving, i hear this might be too much per serving, and also might contribute towards liver or kidney disorders? Just wondering if theres any truth to that, and what amount of the protein is actually absorbed.

Train 5 times a week, consume around 3 to 4 litres of water a day alongside 180 to 200 grams of protein, and am attempting to cut.

Many thanks
 
The_KM

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First, how much do you weigh?

'x' amount of protein absorption at a certain time is a myth.

Certain amounts, usually lesser (centered around 1g/lb of bodyweight) will be utilized more for the purpose of muscle repair and girth. Extremely high quantities of complete sources of protein will be either used for energy or converted to fat. Either way, that's not what we use protein for nor is that the main purpose of the macro.

Depending on your weight, you can cut the protein down if you want. I usually took 3/4 of the Pro Complex because of the high amounts of protein.

All in all, honestly, I don't think the average person needs anymore than 30-40g of protein post workout. Let's not forget the incomplete sources you consume with your simple carbs (especially if used white bread).

Kidney problems? Not that I know of. Don't worry about that. If you want to be cost effective you could cut the serving in half. This will double your servings.

Hope this helps bud!
 
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jguruz

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Thanks KM, i weigh 70-72 kg about 160lbs, i think i might give using 3/4 a scoop a go, will save me some cash for sure. With regards to the other sources of protein, its not a hell of a lot im afraid, because i work at an airport i tend to eat quite a bit of "junk" e.g. tuna baguettes, chicken sandwiches, etc i try to get in oatmeal there somewhere along with a shake ill take along with me. My goal is to lose another 5 kg or so of bodyfat, so as to get the abs out but i dont want to lose lean muscle, although i realise im just a newbie and i may not be at that level yet.
 
tim290280

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Kidney problems from protein = myth
Liver problems from protein = myth
"X" amount of protein per meal = myth

The actual amount of protein you need for muscle growth and repair is more like 1g/kg, excess amounts will usually be converted to fat or burnt as energy. You can consume a bit more, but you would be better off making sure that you get your macros correct and nutrients and vitamens from whole foods.
 
Fatality

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Tim, just curious, you sure about the 1g/1 kg? I weight 170lbs so I should be taking around 78 g of protein a day? That's it, I'm curious for some articles, I believe you and all, I just want some proof! thanks bud!
 
The_KM

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Tim, just curious, you sure about the 1g/1 kg? I weight 170lbs so I should be taking around 78 g of protein a day? That's it, I'm curious for some articles, I believe you and all, I just want some proof! thanks bud!

To be honest, there's too many variables.

1g/lb of bodyweight is sufficient and a good guideline. Protein is largely metabolic. 18-20% is burned off through metabolic heat (raise in body temperature). 1g-1.2g/lb of bodyweight is in most cases the net needed on a bulking diet. Cutting is different, of course.

Excess amounts, which is extremely easy to come by on high carb, high cal diet are pointless. The process to be stored as fat is much more lengthy, but nonetheless it will be excreted as energy output (**also factors upon BV).

On that note:

jguruz, what are your goals? Cut, bulk, maintain, etc?
 
The Creator

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There are so many variables that come into play when manipulating an individuals intake of this macronutrient. A lot depends on where other macros are in comparison. For example, I up my protein intake very high when I am dieting because my carbs are low and I know that protein has the ability to act as a carbohydrate if needed. However, when I am bulking this would not work because my carbs are so high and my body will be utilizing the glycogen stores. Under normal (non caloric deficit nutritional program) conditions, I believe that 1g/lb should be sufficient for a bodybuilder and this should be split up throughout the day. Different protein sources administer the amino acids at different rates so it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to put a particular number to each sitting. But in the case of whey, I dont think it should ever exceed 40 grams and thats even pushing it.
 
tim290280

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Agree with the above.

Just to clarify I was saying 1g/kg not 1g/lb (which is double). This would be the 100th time I've had this discussion so I'll just paste the link to the last time.

The fact is that we get enough protein, worry more about your macro ratios and caloric intake.
 
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youngmusclejock

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Just to put in my 2 cents I believe it should be 1g/LBM which means 1 gram for each pound of lean body mass. I think adding in total weight is just not right.
 
Big_Guns_Lance

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^^Yes, you are right. Because lets say a guy has 20% bf and calculates his protein/carbs/fats around his TOTAL weight. He's only going to add fat.

You don't need to have those extra kcal's just because you weigh an extra 14lbs of fat. that fat just sits there, it doesn't use kcals.
 

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youngmusclejock

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^^^^ Just wait Lance someone will come in here with their study and prove us all wrong..
 
Big_Guns_Lance

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^^You know what, i was just going to say that.
 
The_KM

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Just to put in my 2 cents I believe it should be 1g/LBM which means 1 gram for each pound of lean body mass. I think adding in total weight is just not right.

Agree'd. Nutrients become overestimated and a person will end up taking in more than they calorically need.
 
The Creator

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But fat weight needs loving too...:carduindisguise
 
Ironslave

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Sigh... I should probably step in.

Like it or not, you can't beat science. If something works, there is a physiological reason why it happens. There's no magic, everything has a mechanism. Even something as basic as learning your alphabet has to to with organizing neural pathways.

As for the protein requirements, this is probably the number 1 area where there is heated resentment between pure scientists, and athletes.

Scientists will be the ones to say "my lab study shows that anything more than x grams per kg is just excreted as nitrogen, therefore athletes who consume x amount looking to gain weight are stupid". On the flip side, you have athletes who think "what does this skinny guy in his lab know, his science means shit."

Both can learn from each other. As for protein requirements, if you want to just look at your basic nitrogen balance (since nitrogen is pretty well only in proteins, not fats or carbs), then positive nitrogen balance in the urine means you've eaten enough protein. The highest you'll really see in the literature is from a guy Peter Lemon, who's advised up to 1.6-1.8g/kg. He's the "go to" guy, as far as protein intake is concerned.

Having said all this, I've said this many times before, what many athletes can't realize is it's not eating more protein which makes you gain weight. It's eating more calories which does this. Lets look as an example...

Here we have a person who is a die hard bodybuilder, lives at the gym, trains every day, doesn't get results. All of a sudden, he takes up something like DC training, and starts eating an extra 2 steaks and 2 chicken breasts every day.

So, now he's eating an additional say 150grams of protein a day, which means, he's eating over 600 calories more than he was, so yeah, he'll be more likely to grow off this alone. BUT, this isn't including that by eating these, his fat intake has probably jumped up as well. So, say he's getting an extra 50 grams of fat, this is 450 calories.

So, all of a sudden, this guy starts eating an extra thousand calories a day. If you looked at his nitrogen balance, it's going to be way way positive. A scientist might look at this and say that this guy is wasting his time eating so much, but the athlete will swear that he's never grown as fast, and he keeps eating the protein.

In this case, it's not the protein, it's the calories. If you suddenly start eating hundreds of extra calories a day, you will grow.


As far as protein being harmful to the liver/kidneys/etc... this is a topic that could have much much discussion. My thoughts? No, if you suddenly start eating an extra couple chicken breats everyday, and you have normal functioning kidneys, no, you're not going to go into renal failure any time soon. Having said that, it can create a state of low-grade metabolic acidosis, which over time (think decades), could lead to some health problems.
 
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The Creator

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^^ Good post IS.
It is a really tough concept to fathom at times. I am constantly reading from the nutritionists, dieticians, physiologists, and scientists that I am eating too much protein when I eat 200-300 grams a day. I think there are some good points made in the post above about the extra calories. My only debate with the science is during my dieting. I undoubtedly hold on to muscle and lost fat when I go 300 grams of protein a day and drop down my other macros. I realize that it is ultimately the calories that determine this, but then why do I still have people telling me that no more than 25% of my total calories should come from protein or else it is a waste? The debate lives on.
I just take my understanding of the aminos different rolls they can take on in the body during different diets. I realize that a positive nitrogen balance is a good thing to maintain/build muscle and it is very difficult to know when enough is enough. I also know that protein has the ability to act as a carbohydrate in the body and therefore supply me with energy, but again to what extent?
I actually had a sports nutritionist agree with my diet during cutting and say that it makes sense for my goal and she thought my body required the amount of protein I was consuming....Ultimately its calories in vs. calories out and my theory has always been nothing extreme. Although nobody would agree with my 40/40/20 or 50/30/20 diet, it is what works for me and thats the important thing.
 
Tonyk212000

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^ These post are too long, I dont feel like reading them :keke:
 
The Creator

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^^Im lacking my brain fuel (carbs) and so my posts are basically useless rambling...
 
The_KM

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^^Im lacking my brain fuel (carbs) and so my posts are basically useless rambling...

When I dieted for my show I ripped the stuffing out of a stuffed elephant because my girlfriend was infringing on cardio time. :uhoh2::angrydude:
 
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