Start of clean bulk!!!

[The_KM]

Nice first point.

However, it is known that you will not get direct weight gain from protein intake. Yes calories are calories, but to eat enough protein to gain wait is not going to happen.

I was talking as far as repair and a waste product. And in LBM:OBM.

Right, it's less calorically dense and has a minimal chance as well as shortened chance of being stored as fat, as during anaerobic sessions oxygen is not needed. Amino acids can be broken don into glucose, however in most cases the glucose will be utilized during glycolysis in which is broken down into pyruvate, that in turn has options depending on oxygen dependency:

If oxygen is present, I believe, the pyruvate will be converted to a coenzyme that being acetyl CoA. Which can either be used in the creation or regulation of ATP (if energy is needed). Or if not, it will be stored as fat. *Chances of ATP to be downsided is very rare, which is also what leads to minimal fat gain.

And if oxygen is present, it will be converted to lactic acid. As this builds up, the pH of the blood drops and causes the "burn". Furthermore, it's possible that the LA can be translocated to the liver to yield glucose or excreted.

This is my understanding.

The calorie to calorie ratio of course differs and effects the direct conversion, as well as percentiles burned through matabolic heat, however 2g+ protein in one's diet is far too much. And being that complete protein sources like that of meats are far more expensive than other macro and micronutrients, it adds to the fact of too much protein.

Also, the breakdown of amino acids into glucose is Gluconeogenesis which requires energy. Your body will avoid this unless in states of starvation or extremely low blood glucose levels to be energy efficient.

Right. It very much matters with its handling in the beginning stages.

 

[The_KM]

From a source I found, while searching studies related:

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/133/2/405

Amino acids interact with glucose metabolism both as carbon substrates and by recycling glucose carbon via alanine and glutamine; however, the effect of protein intake on glucose homeostasis during weight loss remains unknown

100% plagiarized. Our situation is also not geared towards weight loss nor is our body composition and caloric expenditure nears the same.

 

[Braaq]

I was talking as far as repair and a waste product. And in LBM:OBM.

Right, it's less calorically dense and has a minimal chance as well as shortened chance of being stored as fat, as during anaerobic sessions oxygen is not needed. Amino acids can be broken don into glucose, however in most cases the glucose will be utilized during glycolysis in which is broken down into pyruvate, that in turn has options depending on oxygen dependency:

If oxygen is present, I believe, the pyruvate will be converted to a coenzyme that being acetyl CoA. Which can either be used in the creation or regulation of ATP (if energy is needed). Or if not, it will be stored as fat. *Chances of ATP to be downsided is very rare, which is also what leads to minimal fat gain.

And if oxygen is present, it will be converted to lactic acid. As this builds up, the pH of the blood drops and causes the "burn". Furthermore, it's possible that the LA can be translocated to the liver to yield glucose or excreted.

This is my understanding.

The calorie to calorie ratio of course differs and effects the direct conversion, as well as percentiles burned through matabolic heat, however 2g+ protein in one's diet is far too much. And being that complete protein sources like that of meats are far more expensive than other macro and micronutrients, it adds to the fact of too much protein.

Well you listed most of the steps of they Glycolytic pathway leading to the Krebs Cycle (not in complete detail, thank god ) However you are right that excess amino acids if not used will be converted via gluconeogenesis. However, as said this is not likely to happen unless outrageous amounts are taken in.

 

[Braaq]

From a source I found, while searching studies related:

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/133/2/405



100% plagiarized. Our situation is also not geared towards weight loss nor is our body composition and caloric expenditure nears the same.

Yeah, I was going to start by using a study to back up my argument and I found that as well. However instead I just took the first sentence to start my argument rather than write an essay and post references :wutyousay: I am a lazy poster and am currently writing an essay now.. no need to do it on Mecca.

 

[The_KM]

All good, not gonna make a big deal.

Though, 2-2.5g+ of protein/lb of BW is outragous in my books for a natty athlete if you ask me.

Quality debate nonetheless.

 

[Braaq]

All good, not gonna make a big deal.

Though, 2-2.5g+ of protein/lb of BW is outragous in my books for a natty athlete if you ask me.

Quality debate nonetheless.

I didn't disagree with that, especially when taking in so many CHO's and Fats. I would only recommend that type of protein intake for a larger bodybuilding preparing for a show. I would not take in more than 1-1.5g/lb of body weight.

I need to stop being lazy and start posting my references when used, I was going to post the study and then said "fuck it" and look what happened
Way to go KM! :angrydude:

 

[Duality]

Great points but I just thought I would interject with you on this certain point.
Amino acids interact with glucose metabolism both as carbon substrates and by recycling glucose carbon via alanine and glutamine; however, the effect of protein intake on glucose homeostasis during weight loss remains unknown. However, it is known that you will not get direct weight gain from protein intake. Yes calories are calories, but to eat enough protein to gain wait is not going to happen. Also, the breakdown of amino acids into glucose is Gluconeogenesis which requires energy. Your body will avoid this unless in states of starvation or extremely low blood glucose levels to be energy efficient.

beau, just get in at 30-40 grams of protein 5 times a day and get in your calories. if you train hard, and rest adequately, you'll grow. i'm not saying braaq is wrong, but don't obsess over every little detail. get all the basics down and do them right and you'll have no problem bro people like to make bodybuilding out to be scientific and on a molecular and cellular level they're right, it is fascinating how the body reacts and responds to what we dish out at it. but as far as you're concerned (just trying to put on some size) just move some heavy ass weight and get in your meals and zzz's and you'll be money!



p.s. i love you braaq

 

[The_KM]

I never made it scientific until I was debated. I gave a reason and supported it, rather than spewing out advice I like to give the person a reason why they would do this and that.

I need to stop being lazy and start posting my references when used, I was going to post the study and then said "fuck it" and look what happened
Way to go KM! :angrydude:

Source or not, regardless it was quality information. I just wanted to make it clear that it wasn't your own words, which is fair.

 

[Duality]

^ i'm not knocking you man. just poking fun at my big lovable friend since he was the one who brought in all the scientific jargon and whatnot.

didn't braaq once call you a mental masturbator? you should have said "well it takes on to know one!"

 

[The_KM]

^ i'm not knocking you man. just poking fun at my big lovable friend since he was the one who brought in all the scientific jargon and whatnot.

didn't braaq once call you a mental masturbator? you should have said "well it takes on to know one!"

Haha I know bro. Yeeeeeeep sure did, Braaq is the jerk circle leader of mental masturbators

 

[Duality]

Haha I know bro. Yeeeeeeep sure did, Braaq is the jerk circle leader of mental masturbators

that he is. you should hear him in the gym. someone will ask him or i a question and i'll give them a simple response (for the most part these are simple people) and blake will confuse the hell out of them. his info is very accurate and he is quite knowledgable, but he can get a tad carried away with the masterbating.

 

[Braaq]

Haha I know bro. Yeeeeeeep sure did, Braaq is the jerk circle leader of mental masturbators

I am just your leader always remember that

I don't post large amounts (of sometimes unnecessary) information, to "prove a point" Unless I am debating. You can look at most of my posts and they are plain jargon most of the time and straight to the point. That is NOT a mental masterbator, Duality is just jealous because he cannot be one if he wanted. He has to lead his posts with "I feel" or "I think" Although many times he is right or makes a good point regardless.

 

[Braaq]

that he is. you should hear him in the gym. someone will ask him or i a question and i'll give them a simple response (for the most part these are simple people) and blake will confuse the hell out of them. his info is very accurate and he is quite knowledgable, but he can get a tad carried away with the masterbating.

I know I did that the other day with that kid who just asked a question about forearms.... :wutyousay:

 

[Duality]

Hey now I don't post large amounts (of sometimes unnecessary) information, to "prove a point" Unless I am debating. You can look at most of my posts and they are plain jargon most of the time and straight to the point. That is NOT a mental masterbator, Duality is just jealous because he cannot be one if he wanted. He has to lead his posts with "I feel" or "I think"

will i think you are quite wrong. i feel that i always say great stuff. i think i could be an excellent mental masterbator and feel that you jerk it too much on here mister. i feel you should think more with your mind and i think you should feel more thoughtfully, as i always feel i do. i hope this helps you because i think it will, at least that is what i feel and think, i think.

 

[Braaq]

will i think you are quite wrong. i feel that i always say great stuff. i think i could be an excellent mental masterbator and feel that you jerk it too much on here mister. i feel you should think more with your mind and i think you should feel more thoughtfully, as i always feel i do. i hope this helps you because i think it will, at least that is what i feel and think, i think.

touche

 

[The_KM]

You guys are both great members without a doubt. Just have two different approaches in informing people.

 

[Beau]

All good, not gonna make a big deal.

Though, 2-2.5g+ of protein/lb of BW is outragous in my books for a natty athlete if you ask me.

Quality debate nonetheless.

Ya currently i'm taking in roughly 1.5g/lb...I don't think that's to excessive is it?

 

[Beau]

Sup man. Couple things that I hope will help ya out:

Although your protein intake may feel it's working, it's wasteful and is most likely working as a placebo. Over 1g/lb of bodyweight or even 1g/kg of bodyweight will disuse the protein and convert it to glucose and will be used when ATP demands are present, or will be stored as BF (aerobic or anaerobic pending). Not every gram of protein you take take is used for cell girth and repair, which is the reason for restrictions.

And this is why on a bulk, we can take in the carbs we do. Carbs are protein sparing. So, I'd center your carb intake around morning, pre and post workout through: (20% morning, 20% pre workout, 25% post workout). That said, I'd increase carbs around those areas by 10-15%.

Furthermore, I'd illicit an insulin spike in the morning. Not necessarily dextrose, but simple sugars with a high enough GL to heighten BG levels. By doing this you will synthesize glycogen for the day...which is good!

That's all. Hope this helps you out, if not then that's fine too. Good luck!

So something like this? i've changed a few things with carbs/meal since I posted the diet as well. Let me know what you guys think


MEAL 1- 75g CARBS, 45g PROTEIN, 10g HEALTHY FATS

MEAL 2- 60g CARBS, 45g PROTEIN

MEAL 3- 60g CARBS, 45g PROTEIN

MEAL 4- 75g CARBS, 45g PROTEIN, 10g HEALTHY FATS

MEAL 5 POST WORKOUT- 100g CARBS, 45g PROTEIN

MEAL 6- 45g PROTEIN, 20g HEALTHY FATS

MEAL 7- 45g PROTEIN, 20g HEALTHY FATS

 

[Beau]

MEAL 1- 2/3 cup oats, 40g bread, almost 2 cups egg whites, 2 tbsp peanut butter

MEAL 2- large potato, 6-7oz lean steak

MEAL 3- 1/3 cup(raw) brown rice , 8oz turkey/chicken, greens

MEAL 4- same as meal 3

MEAL 5- whey shake, 60g dextrose, 10g BCAA, 2 slices white bread

MEAL 6- 2/3 cup rice, 6oz turkey

MEAL 7- 1 cup cottage cheese, 2 tbsp PB

 

[The_KM]

So something like this? i've changed a few things with carbs/meal since I posted the diet as well. Let me know what you guys think


MEAL 1- 75g CARBS, 45g PROTEIN, 10g HEALTHY FATS
MEAL 2- 60g CARBS, 45g PROTEIN
MEAL 3- 60g CARBS, 45g PROTEIN
MEAL 4- 75g CARBS, 45g PROTEIN, 10g HEALTHY FATS
MEAL 5 POST WORKOUT- 100g CARBS, 45g PROTEIN
MEAL 6- 45g PROTEIN, 20g HEALTHY FATS
MEAL 7- 45g PROTEIN, 20g HEALTHY FATS

Remove fats from meal 1. Simple carbs can be placed here as well. The fat will only delay digestion of other nutrients, and being it's usually in the morning, you're in a slight catabolic state.

Try:

30-35g of protein/meal of complete protein sources. The problem is that there is a high amount of protein in complex carb sources, especially grained and whole wheats.

I'd keep carbs at 70-80g/meal. 80-100g in the morning and post workout. I'd up fats a bit, especially at night. Meal 7, emphasize the casein in proteins.