stretching

[jwill0214]

I was reading an article on flex online about different body types and how people with those body type should train. I fall under ectomorph which means I am naturally skinny. In the article it talks about if I stretch before or after my workout it can lengthin my muscles. Is this true?

 

[The Creator]

Active dynamic stretching with foam rolling before a workout and static stretching afterwards. Yes stretching does lengthen your muscles if they are tight. Your muscles have a natural elasticity to them and you want that to be present when doing strength training so dont hold any stretches before resistance training.

 

[Tonyk212000]

I usually get alot of heat for this but I do DC training which requires a stretch after each bodypart. There is a fascia sheeth surrounding every muscle you have on your body. This sheeth is tightly wrapped around your muscle and can prevent it from growing because it is so tightly wrapped. After you train your body starts to repair the muscle fibers that you broke down during working out. Now once you are done training a specific bodypart you should stretch it inturn stretching the fascia sheeth. Once it is stretched out it provides room for the muscle to grow hence you do it after training when the muscle starts to repair itself.

Edit: sorry this doesnt pertain to lengthening of the muscle but I hope this helps!

 

[tim290280]

I wouldn't put too much stock in the body types thing. It is actually a psychology grading not a physiological grading that has been fiddled with to make broad sweaping conclusions that just aren't acurate.

 

[Napol3onator]

the bodytypes are a good generalization though tim. Nobody is completely one or the others I wouldn't think.

 

[tim290280]

^^ I don't think they are. Are you trying to tell me that a skinny guy is somehow skinny due only to genes and not due to the lack of food he eats? Or that the fat guy is fat because of genes and not due to the fact that he overeats?

Seriously it is such a narrow view of the world that it doesn't bear mention.

 

[The_KM]

Can someone please show me a study that static stretching elongates particular muscle fibers?

I've read several studies that show static stretching DOES NOT increase the length of a muscle. Although it may be more comfortable to reach a certain degree of movement after a couple of months of static stretching, the level of passive resistance within the muscle remains the same. That is...the length of the muscle has not changed, rather the ROM has increased.

However, that's not due the lengthening of muscle fibers. As pain tolerance is heightened, your ROM will increase, which seems to be the only result from passive stretching. Damnit, had my study ready to follow and I can't find the link, unfortunately.

When I stretch I focus on movements that mimic the following exercise.
I'd also refrain from stretching pre workout as it decreases power output.

Post workout is fine if the maintenance of flexibility is your goal, but I disagree with the statements regarding the elongation of the musculature.

About your body:

Don't let it effect you. I don't think there's a specific way to train. Train smart and heavy while shoveling the PROPER food. Although, for example, if you're overweight, there's no reason why you can't dedicate yourself to drop the excess. Even if it's more of a challenge than most, the better the accomplishment.

Tonyk: please show me a study that regards your statement on "leaving muscle fibers room to grow". Thanks.

 

[The Creator]

I usually get alot of heat for this but I do DC training which requires a stretch after each bodypart. There is a fascia sheeth surrounding every muscle you have on your body. This sheeth is tightly wrapped around your muscle and can prevent it from growing because it is so tightly wrapped. After you train your body starts to repair the muscle fibers that you broke down during working out. Now once you are done training a specific bodypart you should stretch it inturn stretching the fascia sheeth. Once it is stretched out it provides room for the muscle to grow hence you do it after training when the muscle starts to repair itself.

Edit: sorry this doesnt pertain to lengthening of the muscle but I hope this helps!

I'm not so sure that static stretching is going to really loosen the fascia that much and it is not going to make that much of a difference during the actual training session. I definitely agree with you that many people neglect loosening fascia but my understanding is that things like self-myofascial release (foam rolling) and deep tissue massages are what really accomplish this.

 

[Tonyk212000]

^ OK ill find someone sense everyone is stuck on scientific datas nuts.

 

[The Creator]

^^Its all meant to help bro. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, I just always like to know for fact about things when it comes to my training and I think others do too.

 

[Tonyk212000]

^ I know i wasnt serious just messin around. No one knows my humor on here.

 

[Tonyk212000]

Found an article from another forum im on. Not really scientific data but a good read.

Can You Use The Muscle Memory Phenomenon, Without Ever Having The Muscle?

Researched and Composed by Jacob Wilson

Introduction

Each of you has heard of the phenomenon known as muscle memory. It is the occurrence of insanely extreme and fast growth in a person who is regaining the lost muscle he has allowed to atrophy. Stories such as 40-50 pound muscle gains( in a short time span ) in regards to this subject are not uncommon. The question however remains, what exactly is muscle memory and what causes it to occur? I not only intend to address this question, but also to answer the title of this article in a very positive manner. You see, I believe that an athlete can literally mimic this tremendous phenomenon! Read on if you want to find out how!!!

Note: The following article discusses muscle memory, as a term to define a recapturing of past growth. The term however should not be used in a motor sense, as that 'memory' is actually in the nervous system.

What Exactly Is it that Occurs During Memory?

Lets say that you busted your behind in the gym and built a huge, massive pair of quads measuring 30 inches in circumference! Then for one reason or another you stopped training your legs. During the time off, your quadriceps atrophied( shrunk ) down to 24 inches. Determined to regain your lost mass you decide to hit the gym again with extreme ferocity! Only this time you are able to gain back those 6 inches in a matter of months, where as originally it took you years to gain that much mass! What happened?

Before I can answer that, I need to ask you a very important question. What surrounds, binds and holds every muscle group in place?

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" Essentially all bets are off, due to the amount of room you will have to grow! "
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If you answered connective tissue, you would have been exactly right! In order to further explain muscle memory it would behoove us to briefly review what exactly this connective tissue is( for a greater explanation read my article, the anatomy of a muscle fiber. It goes in great depth in what I am about to cover. So if it seems a bit confusing, you definitely need to consult this article. ). Simply put every muscle is made up of 1, 000s of muscle fibers. These muscle fibers are all individually wrapped with a connective tissue wrapping, or a sheath. This is called the endomysium. These individual muscle fibers are then organized in bundles( called fascicles ) which are covered by another connective tissue sheathe called the perimysium. These bundles or fascicles are then placed together in an orderly arrangement( which determines the shape and functionality of the muscle ) and held in place[/b] by a layer of connective tissue known as the epimysium. Finally each of these layers is held together by the deep fascia( a courser material ). The connective tissue of every muscle fiber acts like a girdle of sorts. Which means that it binds a muscle group together, and to its neighboring muscle in many cases. It also protects, organizes and allows the force of contraction generated by the thousands of muscle fibers in a particular group, to be harnessed with great efficiency!

The important thing to understand is this: Connective tissue is not only a tuff material but also hugs tight to its surrounding area, almost constricting it! What does this have to do with muscle growth you say? Ahh, that my friend, is where muscle memory comes in! Think about it for a moment. In order for a muscle to hypertrophy, what needs to take place if it is restricted by this tight binding girdle? The tissue must stretch and become more pliable right?! If this did not occur, then muscle growth would be hindered( you cannot grow unless there is enough room to do so)!

When you increased your muscle mass by building 30 inch wheels, you also ended out stretching and expanding the muscles encasing tissue. Therefore the manipulation of these protective sheathes was a major factor in your ability to stimulate hypertrophy! In the scenario painted, we also discussed you taking time off from training. So much so, that your lower body atrophied to a point in which 6 inches were lost off of your legs. However, even with this tremendous setback, you still had stretched the connective tissue to a great extent. When you came back to the gym and trained, you were no longer fighting the restrictions of tight, unpliable fascia, but rather a more elastic and pre-expanded connective tissue! Essentially all bets were off, due to the amount of room you had to grow! More room to grow enables more mass to be accumulated! This is one of the top theories held today for what we coin " muscle memory. "

How Can Muscle Memory Be Mimicked?

Mimicking this process would center around the manipulation of the connective tissue surrounding, organizing and binding a muscle. As mentioned it can literally prevent the expansion of growth. Therefore our goal will be to create an environment similar to one in which a muscle group had previously been larger. In essence you will have to stretch and expand the fascia, epimysium and other tissues. This, can certainly be done and done effectively! However, you need to understand that this is a tuff tissue, and expanding it can be a very complex process.

The question now is what will it take to accomplish such a goal. Perhaps the most recognizable figure in regards to this subject is the great John Parillo. He uses a technique called " fascia stretching. " This is a special procedure used that actually expands the fascia. One of the greatest scientists the sport of bodybuilding has ever known is D.J. Millward. He has made some of the most incredible break throughs Only D J Millward calls this revolutionary technique the bag expansion theory. You see, the connective tissue surrounding a muscle is often referred to as a bag, hence the title of the theory.

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" By then you will be begging for mercy! "
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Interestingly enough, before any expert or scientists began coining phrases, great athletes such as Tom Platz and Arnold Schwarzenegger were using techniques that would most certainly expand the fascia( discussed in greater detail in a bit )! However, I would credit the field of massaging with the earliest breakthroughs in fascial expansion. I believe their theories paved the way for one of the most extreme growth methods every presented in this brutal sport.

In particular I am referring to a woman named Dr. Ida P. Rolf. She invented a famous technique called rolfing. It is a special, extreme form of massage that as Ida puts it, manipulates deep tissue. She theorized that you could move around, loosen, expand, realign and strengthen this tissue with her great techniques! Interestingly enough, her techniques applied to Parillo and Millwards can not only drastically enhance muscle growth, but also increase separation between muscle groups. How incredible is that!?

From a physiological standpoint John Parillo believes that the deep fascia is the main concern of the bodybuilder to target, and Millwards research leads him to believe that the endomysium and perimysium are chiefly responsible for the restriction of muscle growth. The great news is that the same techniques for expansion of the fascia, work for the expansion of the endomysium and perimysium.

How To Expand The Fascia for Enhanced Muscular Size and Shape!

At this stage I am going to have to issue one of my essential warnings. If you do not have a high pain threshold I would not suggest reading any further. The methods discussed here are extremely painful, and only an athlete with the mentality of a warrior will have the guts it takes to apply the following principles! However, when the smoke clears, you will have a greater capacity for growth, a fuller muscle, and greater separation between body parts!

Again, our goal, as D J Millward puts it is to create a larger bag. In order to accomplish this feet we will need to stretch the connective tissue beyond its previous limits, cause damage and then allow it to heal in such a way that it grows back larger then it was previously. There are four factors involved in fascia stretching.

1. Heat

If you are intent on truly mimicking muscle memory, you must not only stretch the fascia, but you must do it in an absolutely perfect environment or you will not reap even near optimal results! The first factor mentioned above was heat. You see a cold muscle has a limited range of motion. Our goal is to stretch the fascia past its previous limits and this cannot take place if range of motion is limited. Therefore you must adequately warm up before performing the techniques discussed shortly.

2. An incredible blood pump

Everyone here understands the extreme power of fluid! Whole canyons have been carved from water erosion! The same principle is applicable here. A tremendous back flow of fluid in a muscle group will stretch the connective tissue that restricts muscle growth. In other words the greater the pump, the more direct and effective the stretch in the fascia, epimysium, and perimysium will be!

3. Insanely Extreme Stretching

The third and most painful step in fascia expansion, is to manually stretch it. This entails stretching the target muscle group with insane intensity! By doing this you will force the girdle which inhibits enhanced mass, and enable further growth in the myofibrils( the largest aspect of a muscle fiber ).

4. Recovery!

Unfortunately, like every aspect of bodybuilding, we must have enough will power to allow the area worked to recover. You see, the pump, combined with extreme manual stretching will damage the connective tissue. In order for it to grow back and be remodeled as Millard puts it, into a larger bag, it must have a significant enough time to recover. This is not only a painful process, but like any type of extreme training is also stressful, and needs significant time to recover.

Now that we understand the factors involved in fascia expansion, we must apply them in an organized fashion in order to reap incredible results!

 

[Tonyk212000]

AND ANOTHER




When you think about gaining muscle, stretching is probably not the first thing that pops into your head. But did you know that stretching plays a critical role in building muscle?

Every muscle in your body is enclosed in a bag of tough connective tissue known as fascia. Fascia is important for holding your muscles in their proper place in your body. But your fascia may also be holding back your muscle growth. Think for a moment about your muscles. You train them and feed them properly. They want to grow and will grow but something is holding them back. They have no room to grow!

Because fascia is so tough, it doesn't allow the muscle room to expand. It is like stuffing a large pillow into a small pillowcase. The size of the muscle won't change regardless of how hard you train or how well you eat because the connective tissue around your muscles is constricting the muscles within.

The best example of this is the calf muscle. The lower leg is riddled with fascia because of its tremendous weight-bearing duties in the body. It is because of this fascia that many trainers have great difficulty developing their calves.

The solution: stretching.

Using the pillowcase example from above, imagine you can expand the size of the pillowcase by stretching it. Suddenly, the pillow within has more room and will expand to fill that new space. By stretching your muscles under specific conditions, you can actually stretch your fascia and give your muscles more room to grow.

The key to effective fascial stretching is the pump. The best time to stretch to expand the bags that are holding in your muscles is when your muscles are pumped up full of blood.

When your muscles are fully pumped up, they are pressing against the fascia. By stretching hard at that time, you increase that pressure on the fascia greatly, which can lead to expansion of the fascia.

One of the major reasons Arnold Schwarzenegger had such incredible chest development was that he finished his chest workouts with dumbell flyes, an exercise that emphasizes the stretched position of the pectoral muscles. He would pump his chest up full of blood during the workout then do flyes, holding the stretch at the bottom of the flye. This gave his chest room to grow to amazing proportions.

Fascial stretching is more rigorous than regular stretching but the results can be amazing. When you stretch hard enough to cause the fascia to expand, you will really feel it! When you are stretching the fascia, you should feel a powerful pulling sensation and pressure as the muscle works against the fascia to expand it.

Be sure you do not stretch so hard that you cause the muscle to tear or cause injury to yourself. You will rapidly learn to distinguish the difference between good stretching and a bad stretching. You should not feel any sharp pain, just a steady pull.

Hold each stretch for at least 20 to 30 seconds as you must give your fascia time to be affected by the stretch. Stretch hard like this only when you have a fully pumped muscle as you must give your fascia a reason to expand. If your muscles aren't pumped, just stretch normally.

One set of hard stretching after each set you do for a muscle group, besides the obvious benefits of increased flexibility, can have an incredible effect on the size of your muscles and their further ability to grow.

 

[tim290280]

Can someone please show me a study that static stretching elongates particular muscle fibers?

Have a look at the articles I've posted, I may have posted a review that I have read about the different types of stretching. There was also a round table discussion, both from the J St and Cond.

If I haven't then PM me and I'll send you the pdf next time I get a chance.

 

[samsam]

Using the generalization body types is for some people just an excuse for their poor results from weight training is you ask me. (You didn't but what the hell).

Ex.
Dude1: Man you're kinda skinny for a guy working out 5 times a week:
Duderino: I know, I'm an ectomorph, which means I get poor results from working out.
Dude1: Oh, sucks to be you.

Of course genetic build is determines a great part of the outcome of weight training but is should not be an excuse just because you lack knowledge or don't put in enough effort.

You can't really evaluate your genetics from training a couple of months worth of training.

To sum it up, I agree with Tim, the body types are complete nonsense.

 

[tim290280]

^^ Well put. In genetics it would be the GxE interaction (genetics x environment) that we would be talking about. Whenever you look at a phenotype you see the interaction of genes with the environment such that you can expect an equal contribution from both. I hate it when people want to discount and use genetics as an excuse.

 

[TJ]

Just wanted to chime in and say some good posts in here. Creator's first post pretty much sums up what types of stretches to do and when.

EDIT: If you can, though, do your static stretches at night after a shower or trip to the hot tub.

 

[jwill0214]

Thanks for the responses..I am not a very flexible persona at all. I cant even touch my ankles when standing up. I think i will start doing static stretching after my workouts not only to help "lengthin" muscles but it will at least help my ROM

 

[jwill0214]

O and if you don't mind to explain what is "Active dynamic stretching with foam rolling "?

 

[The Creator]

Good posts Tony. I used to always stretch inbetween every set. The reason why I dont anymore is that when exercises are done properly, every rep should incorporate a good stretch. Stretch and contract pretty much sums up resistance training. That elasticity that the muscles have will help to produce power in lifts and consequently hypertrophy.