The First Cycle

[youngmusclejock]

Letro will not be needed. Remember you need estrogen in order to grow. So you do not want to completely kill it by using letro. You can very easily run Nolva at 10 mgs per day incase of gyno.

As for throwing in D~Bol, I agree that around week 4/5 is your best bet. You are doing nothing more than stroking in your ego when throwing it in earlier on long ester cycles.
Just to get a clearer picture you are running 500 mgs a week, correct?

 

[youngmusclejock]

Also just another note D~Bol has a half~Life of 4 hours so it needs to be dosed accordingly to keep blood levels stable. You do not have to but I would recommend it so you do not have a swing in hormone levels.

 

[bambam55]

YMJ Thanks bro... I thought I'd get more comments lol

Yes your right it will be 500mgs a week. I just have the letro as one of those in case things, but thinks for the heads up with nolva at 10 per day.

My biggest question is I didnt think about this till after I posted. I have heard both sides of this story. Some say with long ester, Monday and Thursday every week is fine, your thoughts? Others say go every 3 days for more balanced levels, I hope thats clear. I was planning on just sticking monday and thursday.

 

[youngmusclejock]

Just like with anything it's all a matter of opinion on when to inject.

You read some guys injecting everyday even with long esters. Reason being stable blood levels. I think a lot of inexperienced or uneducated users or AAS enthusiast don't realize how important stable blood levels are. Keep your blood androgen levels stable and you most likely will not have as many or if any bad side effects.

Personally, if I were on a long ester cycle I wouldn't do the everyday injections. Three times a week, probably so.

 

[bambam55]

no no, I must of not been clear. What I meant is some say just go every monday and thursday and keep it like that the whole cycle. While others say rotate every 3 days. I think I'm confusing myself now lol

 

[theweapon]

Monday and thursdays are fine bro.

 

[bambam55]

I thought so, Thanks Weapon

 

[youngmusclejock]

Monday/Thursday, Tuesday/Friday, Monday/Thursday/Sunday,Tuesday/Friday/Monday

Anyway you want to shoot it,it's up to you bam. 2 times a week will be fine

 

[MetalMX]

IMHO the first cycle should use the lightest compounds and ideally ones that are estrogen side effect free such as Anavar, Primobolan and Oral Turinabol.

Most guys dont know what they are getting themselves into when they start a cycle and when the estrogen side effects hit BAM! weight gain, water retention, gyno starts etc.

And their is nothing wrong with an oral only cycle, some make remarkable gains off of this alone depends what the person is comfortable with injects or orals. This is just what ive learnt.

From what ive read your going with 500mg a week of T which is standard most people do this first time round. Letro is a good AI although very strong. Id run it throughout at a small dose to keep your T -> E conversion to a minimum.

 

[MetalMX]

If you are using Dbol check your AST, ALT, GGT, Alkaline Phosphate and Lactate Dehydrogenase levels before and after use.

You say you want to detox.... well L-gluthionine is the bodys master antioxidant and using the powder form 10grams per day would be great. Although im not sure of the oral bioavailability if you could get intravenous L-glutionine with your B-12 injects that would be the best thing.

Also Injectable Vitamin B12 will help with a lot with methylation. Methylation is basically the attachment or substitution of a methyl group on various substrates. Methylation is involved in hundreds of chemical reactions in the body including cell energy, healing, immunity and genetic expression of DNA and RNA. People can be under or overmethylators and this can cause serious problems disease, cancer, diabetes etc... it gets complicated after that. Doctors won't tell you this as they don't even know about methylation and since the medical industry is run by the drug companies who push for their drugs to be sold to make money and treating your symptoms not the root cause.... sry getting into a whole other issue here.

Its good to measure all the major endocrine hormones before a cycle, during and after so once you finish you want your hormones to be back to the levels that you had before you started.

This includes: LH, FSH, IGF-1, Total & Free Testosterone, DHEA's, ACTH, Cortisol, Free T4, Free T3, TSH and GH levels.

At the end of your cycle you want you stimulating hormones LH, FSH and TSH to come back to normal as quickly as possible.

 

[Big04pimpin]

There is a lot of questions and info jumping around this thread.... Let me just ramble on since I have a few minutes at work now.

1) Estrogen is in fact needed to grow... I know this from experience. I was crazy enough to try it out on myself because I wanted to see if I could grow with as little estrogen as possible. Didn't work.

2)Letro is a must to have on hand if you don't know how your going to react to certain drugs. Doesn't mean that you need to take it. Just have it on hand just in case.

3) Nolva only blocks your receptors from grabbing on to estrogen and using it, thus you still have the estrogen in your body. I personally don't like this, and have seen proof that its the wrong way to go about estrogen controll.

4) arimidex(l-dex, a-dex, whatever you want to call it) is one of the better choices since it gets rid of estrogen and just doesn't block it. Like mentioned before in this thread, Letro is good but usually too much for most. I personally take .5mgs of Letro e3d but I do it for other reasons.

There are a lot of other things but I am running out of time here at work.

More random thoughts later.

 

[Achilles]

Great info big

 

[Big04pimpin]

Just noticed that the 500mgs/ week of test was getting thrown around again. This is all dependent on Age, race, years body building, diet, body type, body frame, etc. I would adjust it accordingly with your body and goals.

The fixed day schedule is the wrong way to do it. You need to just inject every third day if your going to do that. Blood levels are even more stable. This means you need to bust out a calender and keep track. Same goes for everything from diet to PCT. Get a daily planner if you need to, it will help in the long end.

Make sure your getting legit gear also, when the olympics were around, i found nothing but fake gear every where for outrageous prices. Now that olympics are gone, the borders to china are wide open again shouldn't be as big of a deal but filling a 10ml vial with $.25 of oil and selling it for $185 is a hell of a way to make quick cash.

When I think of more or get time, I will continue my ramblings.

 

[bambam55]

Thanks Big great info brother
Metal you also make some good points.

I'm hoping I can get most of the fine points of this cycle finished up so I can have it planned out correctly and start this coming week. A planner wouldnt be a problem I'm sure they are cheap. I was just curious if going every 3rd day with a longer ester was necessary. I hear some say yes, but i've heard from many first hand users that are older that it doesnt matter. But when I think about it that would be a bit of a drop of between thursday and monday.

I did that detox that I posted a good while back. I use the b-12 now once a week or so.

Big- I have been lifting hard even when I was in high school. 5 years of training with college football too. Currently I'm 22yo 6'0" 215 with bodyfat around 13%. Always had a stronger lower body, you could also check my log.

 

[MetalMX]

Its a good idea for the first time to just pin a small amount of test i duno something like 125mg and see you react to it in the next 3-4 days if all is good then try another 125mg then in 3-4 days if your feeling good go for 250mg.

When i first used Test E and pinned 250mg i felt great after 3-4 days but when i pinned the 250mg again 3 days or so later i started getting agitated, nervous, aggressive, sweating all these weird side effects which i didnt want and i started with 0.25mg of Adex EOD a week before the cycle. As big04 said its about your particular body type, race, age, genes and when using AAS for the first time its good to go low dose to first see how you will react to the compounds.

And using Nolva on cycle is obsolete. Adex inhibits the enzyme aromatase, which is responsible for converting androgens to estrogens. Anastrozole binds reversibly to the aromatase enzyme through competitive inhibition most people use it. And finally theirs Aromasin (which i think is the best AI) which is a suicide inhibitor it lowers estrogen production in the body by blocking the aromatase enzyme. It inhibits aromatase activity in a irreversable manner.

Aromasin is also less harsh with messing with your blood lipids then other AI's. Theirs also evidence it increases IGF-1 levels on it own. It also raises T levels so it could be a nice addition to PCT.


Most important thing is to enjoy yourself while on because it feels great and get people in the gym staring at you, because all work and no play makes jack a dull boy.

 

[theweapon]

Its a good idea for the first time to just pin a small amount of test i duno something like 125mg and see you react to it in the next 3-4 days if all is good then try another 125mg then in 3-4 days if your feeling good go for 250mg.

When i first used Test E and pinned 250mg i felt great after 3-4 days but when i pinned the 250mg again 3 days or so later i started getting agitated, nervous, aggressive, sweating all these weird side effects which i didnt want and i started with 0.25mg of Adex EOD a week before the cycle. As big04 said its about your particular body type, race, age, genes and when using AAS for the first time its good to go low dose to first see how you will react to the compounds.

And using Nolva on cycle is obsolete. Adex inhibits the enzyme aromatase, which is responsible for converting androgens to estrogens. Anastrozole binds reversibly to the aromatase enzyme through competitive inhibition most people use it. And finally theirs Aromasin (which i think is the best AI) which is a suicide inhibitor it lowers estrogen production in the body by blocking the aromatase enzyme. It inhibits aromatase activity in a irreversable manner.

Aromasin is also less harsh with messing with your blood lipids then other AI's. Theirs also evidence it increases IGF-1 levels on it own. It also raises T levels so it could be a nice addition to PCT.


Most important thing is to enjoy yourself while on because it feels great and get people in the gym staring at you, because all work and no play makes jack a dull boy.

you serious? takes a while for you to see any sides 3 days into you still dont know or feel anything, if you do its all in your head. 250mgs a week of test isnt anything! and 500mgs of test is not considered a "big" amount of test, thats a perfect dosage for beginners.


I understand you have alot of medical issues, most of those sides are considered normal, others you got could be from the medical problems you have. aggresiveness and all that shit is all in your head. 500mgs is a small dosage perfect for bambams first cycle.

 

[bambam55]

^^^ I completely agree, I really wasn't gonna even say anything, but you covered it there for me lol

 

[MetalMX]

Sorry i meant Test Prop...

All i know is from 250mg a week i grew like a weed and felt great... i didnt need anymore, why fix it when it aint broke. I just respond a lot to small doses of anything i once used 50mg of anavar a day for 4 weeks and it was tremendous in terms of results.


Some people need more some need less thats why its all up to the individual in question to see what results their getting from the dosages their using and adjust accordingly.

 

[theweapon]

All i know is from 250mg a week i grew like a weed and felt great... i didnt need anymore, why fix it when it aint broke. I just respond a lot to small doses of anything i once used 50mg of anavar a day for 4 weeks and it was tremendous in terms of results.

Some people need more some need less thats why its all up to the individual in question to see what results their getting from the dosages their using and adjust accordingly.

you respond good to it cause you got low test levels(if im not mistaking i remember you saying something about that) you cannot compare yourself to a regular healthy athlete who trains non stop. to add to genes, age, body type etc is health man. a healthy 22 y/o is not gonna respond the same as a 22 y/o who had low test levels and a bunch of other medical problems.

 

[MetalMX]

you respond good to it cause you got low test levels(if im not mistaking i remember you saying something about that) you cannot compare yourself to a regular healthy athlete who trains non stop. to add to genes, age, body type etc is health man. a healthy 22 y/o is not gonna respond the same as a 22 y/o who had low test levels and a bunch of other medical problems.

Yea i agree.

And yea i do have low test. Runs in the family.