that being said, hes got a point when he points out that pretty much every pec tear he's seen has been because of the bench press. anyone else wanna chime in? whats the science regarding pec activation during flat bench compared to inclines, declines etc?
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul.
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Pros and ex champions have good advice but it's obvious you have to take into account that at the end of the day his a different person to us, what nags him like his injuries may not be our problem, you talk to ronnie you see him bench pressing, even zack khan dorians prodidgy all his chest vids it's flat bench press he mainly does and some heavy ass weights too, kai greene, never heard em say dont bench
The fly, be it dumbell or cable, is exercising the pec in the motion for which it was intended. To pull the arms forward in front of the torso. Therefore, I can understand why some would feel this exercise would be more effective than a push exercise where the shoulders are going to be more dominant.
Please tell me the biomechanics behind that statement.
Depends how you want to measure things. There are a number of studies on the muscle recruitments of the pressing muscles, and there are a number that use different methods.Originally Posted by Natzo
The order you are stating has been posted in a larger thread of EMG findings on % of recruitment. EMG has its flaws though as it is very site specific (usually only measuring the surface of the muscle and then only a few fibres in that vacinity). There are deeper EMG probes that are comparatively better. The study above pretty much was surface EMG, so take any findings with a pinch of salt. But also remember what they are measuring and how they did it.
Now one of the better studies I've read was comparing the proportion of muscle involvement in various lifts, rather than levels of activation. This gives you a much better idea of what is working and how much, as opposed to levels of activation. This study concluded that flat and incline bench recruited stuff the same, close grip got more clavicular head, decline less shoulders, and flys were a non-event in comparison to a press. The reason flys rank high on straight surface EMG (as far as I understand, others may have a beter understanding) is that you have removed a lot of the involvement of the delts, triceps, and pec minor (to some extent I believe) that would normally be involved in a press. This fly movement also acts to stretch the pec position, unlike a press which is designed to use it as part of a motion. So you see a press has greater potential as you are involving more muscle, more muscle groups and greater loading. Flys are relying on a stretch position and recruitment firing for the entire ROM.
Now flys also tend to place the joints and various connective tissues under strain. Case in point is the "burn" in the peak contraction that people think is hitting their "inner chest". Reality is that you are placing a heap of strain on the sternal attachments of the pec muscles (under relatively light loading). Same thing when you feel your bicep near the elbow after them. So you have an exercise that is pretty hard on the shoulder, elbow and sternum that has a lower loading potential and is only really useful when done with cables (pec decs are crap, DB's have all loading in the bottom position and virtually deload at the top).
Dorian is right that the bench can be a crap chest exercise, but that is usually in guys that are arm dominant or delt dominant. Fix the imbalance and it isn't an issue. Flys offer too little in terms of loading to provide enough training stimulus for real growth, they are a warmup or a finisher, and even then I wouldn't use them regularly.
for me, db flyes and smith presses are what i do now, due to both of my shoulders hurting regardless of how i do flat/incline or decline bb presses etc. i wish the benches at my gym were like most of the ones powerlifters use, so you can literally slide the bb off, but the ones at my gym, you have to lift off which hurts my shoulders, and since my left shoulder/back is weaker i have to compromise ...
"Lunge is more of a balance thing."
"Lunges are a waste of time."
I don't know man... A lot of bodybuilders still do lunges. I'll still be doing them they're a lot of fun. Anyway I think I need lunges because my right quad for some reason isn't as developed as my left quad (where there's a huge line that splits the outer quad). I would ask Dorian about that, but I think I just have to hit it with more single foot leg presses, and it'll come up in time.
And I think I feel the same way about squats. After squatting I really feel my glutes and my lower back. My form is good though and I do ATG. But I'll keep it in my programme.
Lunges are good and train the leg completely differently to other exercises. If you don't have the basic levels of balance to do a split squat or lunge then you really have to question what you are actually achieving. But once you stop being quad dominant the lunge will hit the whole leg not just the quad.Originally Posted by Johnny 5
I keep hearing people talk about squats like they don't work the quads. I seriously don't understand where this comes from. Short of turning the movement into a Good Morning you should work the quads, glutes, hammys and core. If you are weak in the glutes and core then of course you'll notice it there, but it still works the quads.