MuscleMecca Natural Ability Debate

[Ironslave]

i don't mean to be (overly) disrespecful here, but i just laughed when i read this. you obviously have no understanding nor appreciation for the magnificence and unmatchable qualities of natural talent. take this from someone who was always one of the best athletes in what he did (basketball and track) to someone who openly admitted he was slow and unathletic (you); you can't teach speed or physical ability, period. the naturally best always rise to the top. it's not fair that a guy with poor genes can bust his ass and never be as good as the jock, but that's the way it is. the guy with poor genes can improve on what he's been given sure, but the fact you think someone like max could get some plyometric shoes and work on his speed with rigor, and become as you say "one of the fastet people in men's iceland league is just...........sorry

I agree with Tunen 100%, you are so arrogant AND ignorant it's just absurd. Do you want to turn this into a physiological debate Duality? I would absolutely smoke you in this, and would make no efforts whatsoever to be diplomatic like i usually am when debating nutrition/physiology.




Like usual, you're completely wrong. Once again, Max will never be a national level sprinter, no matter how hard he works. Can he significantly improve his speed with proper training and coaching if he wanted to? Absolutely. How many track athletes have never had to work on their speed and still been competitive at a high level? Absolutely zero.

PS, you are a cocky little shit. When did I say I was slow and unathletic? I listed one example of going from my early days of struggling to keeping up in peewee, to being able to keep up at a major junior hockey level. Not like it matters, dickhead, but playing at a major junior hockey level is comparitively FAR above any local high school athletics you may have played, I'm also a national level wrestler and have been ranked 7th in Canada, so go fist yourself there.

 

[Braaq]

^^ IS...... wanna wrestle?? :techn9ne:


Max, you do need to set goals and work on them long enough to achieve them or give them an actual chance. But since you do not plan on doing bodybuilding or bball professionally then there is no reason you cannot enjoy and participate in both. I wish you the best in your comp coming up and playing bball

 

[Duality]

Originally posted by Ironslave
Like usual, you're completely wrong.

and like usual, you again feel it's your opinion or nothing and anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot! classic ironslave. i'm pretty cocky and arrogant? well ok mr. pot, but me being the kettle that i am i'll call you out when you do the same.

Can he significantly improve his speed with proper training and coaching if he wanted to? Absolutely. How many track athletes have never had to work on their speed and still been competitive at a high level? Absolutely zero.

hmm is it just me or have i agreed with you on this? however your notion that you think max could be "the fastest person in the iceland basketball league" or whatever is just laughable. you overestimate the importance of training and underestimate natural ability.

PS, you are a cocky little shit. When did I say I was slow and unathletic? I listed one example of going from my early days of struggling to keeping up in peewee, to being able to keep up at a major junior hockey level. Not like it matters, dickhead, but playing at a major junior hockey level is comparitively FAR above any local high school athletics you may have played, I'm also a national level wrestler and have been ranked 7th in Canada, so go fist yourself there.

umm pretty sure you said you were flat footed and one of the slowest on your team or whatever but ok i was just going off of what little i knew about you athletically. but way to again resort to insulting and the childish responding you so claim that i always do! you do this to bulkboy as well when he has done nothing of the sort to you, unless disagreeing with you is just so crazy and outlandish you feel it warrants insulting :wutyousay: but hey your ironslave so you go right ahead!

 

[Braaq]

We should do a count of how many threads have been hijacked by Duality and IS and/or whomever else that he gets into it with.
Most of these arguments could be avoided if certain things from both sides are/were worded differently. ELE! Everybody Love Everybody

 

[Duality]

^ i know right. like usual it's the "higher ups" that start it with me, and i just continue it. if you doubt me, go back a couple pages and take a look.

 

[Ironslave]

and like usual, you again feel it's your opinion or nothing and anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot! classic ironslave. i'm pretty cocky and arrogant? well ok mr. pot, but me being the kettle that i am i'll call you out when you do the same.

This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of physiological fact. Yours is wrong, stating "you can't teach speed" is just absurd. You can't teach world class speed to someone who doesn't have the genetic potential, but even still, someone who does have the potential STILL needs a hell of a lot of teaching to get there.

hmm is it just me or have i agreed with you on this? however your notion that you think max could be "the fastest person in the iceland basketball league" or whatever is just laughable. you overestimate the importance of training and underestimate natural ability.

It's a recreational league, if he shaved off .5 seconds from his 40 time he'd be one of the fastest in the league, im willing to bet anything on this.

umm pretty sure you said you were flat footed and one of the slowest on your team or whatever but ok i was just going off of what little i knew about you athletically. but way to again resort to insulting and the childish responding you so claim that i always do! you do this to bulkboy as well when he has done nothing of the sort to you, unless disagreeing with you is just so crazy and outlandish you feel it warrants insulting :wutyousay: but hey your ironslave so you go right ahead!

I mean literally, flat soled feet. You then took it and proclaimed yourself this great athlete, while saying I'm unathletic. Regardless, I gave you an example of how much training and hard work and coaching did for me, I'm pretty sure that Max, or anybody, could go from being slow, to being one of the fastest in that level league with proper training and coaching. Plus your laughing smilies and constantly saying you laugh at whatever is a piss off, especially when you're wrong.

 

[Ironslave]

We should do a count of how many threads have been hijacked by Duality and IS and/or whomever else that he gets into it with.
Most of these arguments could be avoided if certain things from both sides are/were worded differently. ELE! Everybody Love Everybody

Blake, wouldn't you agree though he's annoying and brings it on himself? Please teach him proper netiquette.

 

[Braaq]

Blake, wouldn't you agree though he's annoying and brings it on himself? Please teach him proper netiquette.

I will admit that, yes if he was not my friend in RL then I would think that. But since I do know how he is in RL I have learned to over look it. I know you have seen him and I get into it on here before, I just over look it now. The VIP episode was brought on by him, but many of these arguments are spawned from someone else by coming off insulting. If some of the comments he responds to were reworded I think many of the arguments he has been in could be avoided.
I have a lot of respect for you, you know that, but I think you too can be quick to lose your cool sometimes and get quick to insult sometimes.
That being said I cannot control how he posts, but we have talked about it before and he is going to do what he is going to do.

 

[Duality]

Originally posted by Ironslave
This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of physiological fact. Yours is wrong, stating "you can't teach speed" is just absurd. You can't teach world class speed to someone who doesn't have the genetic potential, but even still, someone who does have the potential STILL needs a hell of a lot of teaching to get there.

again, I AM NOT QUESTIONING SOMEONE CAN IMPROVE THEIR OWN ABILITIES! when i said you can't teach speed, i meant it the same way when a basketball coach tells you "you can't teach height" meaning true speed is a God given ability. you can then work on it from there to take yourself to an elite level which obviously requires training. but the way you speak it sounds as if you think an average guy can just get on an intense and elite level training regime, and become one of the best. it's the same with bodybuilding, you can pump all the steroids you want into someone with bad genes and stick them in the gym 5 days a week, but they'll never look incredible or even as good as the guy with great genes who's natural, you can't overcome genetics. not a perfect analogy, but i'm sure you understand what i'm saying. you need the genetic makeup first if you want to become one of the best.

It's a recreational league, if he shaved off .5 seconds from his 40 time he'd be one of the fastest in the league, im willing to bet anything on this.

if his 40 time was already sub 5 seconds than yes. but what about a guy who runs a 5.25? i don't care what you do, that guys never going to be one of the fastest guys on any court.

Plus your laughing smilies and constantly saying you laugh at whatever is a piss off, especially when you're wrong.

nothing i just said was "wrong". i wish the hardest workers did always rise to the top, it's just not how it is.

 

[Duality]

I will admit that, yes if he was not my friend in RL then I would think that. But since I do know how he is in RL I have learned to over look it. I know you have seen him and I get into it on here before, I just over look it now. The VIP episode was brought on by him, but many of these arguments are spawned from someone else by coming off insulting. If some of the comments he responds to were reworded I think many of the arguments he has been in could be avoided.
I have a lot of respect for you, you know that, but I think you too can be quick to lose your cool sometimes and get quick to insult sometimes.
That being said I cannot control how he posts, but we have talked about it before and he is going to do what he is going to do.

the always unbiased Blake. can't get any fairer than that

 

[Ironslave]

but the way you speak it sounds as if you think an average guy can just get on an intense and elite level training regime, and become one of the best.

Holy shit, how many times do I have to say this? In a rec basketball league in Iceland where he lives, absolutely. Can he be an international athlete? no.

 

[tim290280]

what about the post don't you like? my stance on athletic ability being 95% talent? or my tone while addressing tim? if it's the first than that's cool but i disagree, if it's the latter, i invite you to go back a page and see who cast the first stone and was insulting rarely do i ever set the tone with an insult, however i'm always deemed the person who "started it"

I see you as being wrong on both counts. You have come into Max's log and insulted him when in the same breath you display complete ignorance of the subject matter. So don't be surprised when someone calls you on it, because it was more than fair to call your original statement either stupid or ignorant.

Next point would be to say that Ironslave is the physiologist here, I've done a bit of reading of the science, Tunen is also bemused at your statement, so I think it is fair to say that you are the one that needs to go away and cure your ignorance not us.

You cannot argue with the facts, you were factually incorrect, there is no difference of opinion.

 

[Tunen]

You cannot argue with the facts

Christian people kinda specialize in this you know...

 

[Hypocrisy86]

If moderation is deemed necessary it will happen. We don't confer with members before moderating.

How was it necessary? :wutyousay:

 

[Maxmonzter]

today i did legs,back,tricep,forarms

squats:
-100kg 6 reps
-100kg 6 reps

leg press:
-220kg 6 reps
-220kg 6 reps

stiff leg deadz:
-90kg 6 reps
-90kg 6 reps

pulldowns:
-60kg 6 reps
-60kg 6 reps

bb rows:
-60kg 6 reps
-70kg 6 reps
-80kg 6 reps

v handle pulldowns:
-70kg 6 reps

cable rows:
-100kg 6 reps

close grip bench press:
-60kg 6 reps
-70kg 6 reps

pushdowns:
-80kg 6 reps
-90kg 6 reps

2 sets forarms

leg press calf raises:
-220kg 6 reps
-220kg 6 reps

seated calf raises:
-3 plates 6 reps
-3 plates 6 reps

comment on the workout:

it was a pretty fun workout, i haven´t done bb rows in a long time so i had to go up in the weights and that is why i did 3 sets. also the hams were crazy sore after the 2 sets of stiff leg deadz, i had to stretch between each set for back so i could walk. not so big numbers there. i´m gonna be sore in the morning

 

[Pickle]

^ nice session max

 

[Ironslave]

Max next ti me i am going to jump on your back when you do squats, then I will punch you in the tit.

 

[Tonyk212000]

This fight between ironslave and duality is amusing IMO. Only because I was the one who used to be on the otherside of it.

 

[Tonyk212000]

O and dont worry max one day you will be at 5 percent bodyfat. Its just gonna take like 5 months of strict dieting. Dont worry about the negativities soome of these people bring on you. Personally I get a little "fat" in the offseason but always manage to bring it down when i need too.

 

[Duality]

I see you as being wrong on both counts. You have come into Max's log and insulted him when in the same breath you display complete ignorance of the subject matter. So don't be surprised when someone calls you on it, because it was more than fair to call your original statement either stupid or ignorant.

Next point would be to say that Ironslave is the physiologist here, I've done a bit of reading of the science, Tunen is also bemused at your statement, so I think it is fair to say that you are the one that needs to go away and cure your ignorance not us.

You cannot argue with the facts, you were factually incorrect, there is no difference of opinion.

Originally posted by Duality
if his 40 time was already sub 5 seconds than yes. but what about a guy who runs a 5.25? i don't care what you do, that guys never going to be one of the fastest guys on any court.

your thoughts.....