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Bible and science contradictory?

Arcane1129

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As a result of a discussion in the chatbox:

If the two (Bible and science) contradict each other on something, post what and we'll get a discussion going.

1) No bashing.
2) Stay open minded.
3) Don't post generalizations or misinformed opinions.
4) Don't post if you aren't adding something useful to the conversation.

And no, I don't give a crap if you don't like the topic idea.
 
SerbMarko

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nice thread buddy..

heres a few..

Do the Bible and Science Disagree?

Where other cosmologies found in religions have the world on the back of turtles, or the earth being the result of a fight between gods, biblical revelation is quite consistent with science. This is not to say that the Bible is vindicated by science; rather, it is science that is vindicated by the Bible. Consider the following: (note: all quotes are from the NIV)



The Spherical Shape of the Earth - "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in," (Isaiah 40:22).

The Hebrew language did not have a word for "sphere." Circle is quite sufficient.



The Earth is suspended in nothing - "He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing," (Job 26:7).



The Stars are Innumerable - "He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars -- if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be," (Genesis 15:5).



The Existence of Valleys in the Seas - "The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of breath from his nostrils," (2 Samuel 22:16).



The Existence of Springs and Fountains in the Seas - "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month -- on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened," (Genesis 7:11). See also Gen. 8:2; Prov. 8:28.



The Existence of Water Paths (Ocean Currents) in the Seas - "O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!...When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,...You made him [man] ruler over the works of your hands; you put everything under his feet...the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas," (Psalm 8:1,3,6,8).



The Hydrologic Cycle - "He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight," (Job 26:8).

- "He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind," (Job 36:27-28)

- "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again," (Ecclesiastes 1:6-7).



The Concept of Entropy - "In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded," (Psalm 102:25-26).



The Nature of Health, Sanitation, and Sickness - The listing for this section is too large for this page. But the scriptural references are Leviticus chapters 12 through 14.
 
Zigurd

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How we got here.
How the Universe was created.
 
Pickle

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:jerkoff1:

Science is all God doesn't exsist.

Where the bible is all God exsists!

Pretty much thats it.
 
SerbMarko

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How we got here.
How the Universe was created.

are you merely asking these questions? or stating that these are the contradictions that the bible does not answer? makes yourself clear please
 
SerbMarko

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:jerkoff1:

Science is all God doesn't exsist.

Where the bible is all God exsists!

Pretty much thats it.

2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
 
Arcane1129

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How we got here.
How the Universe was created.

Provide information claiming one side is incorrect and your position is.

This goes for all posts in here.
 
SerbMarko

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How we got here.
How the Universe was created.

The Order of Creation According to the Bible



1. Creation of the entire physical universe (matter,1 energy,2 space3 and time4) from the invisible (16 x 109 years ago).5 This creation event includes an expanding universe,6 which continues to expand at this time.6
2. Preparation of planet earth for the creation of life. The Bible describes the Earth's initial conditions following its creation when the Sun is already shining. The Bible also says that the Earth is controlled by the heavens and not the other way around (geocentrism is refuted).7 The original Earth is described as being without any oceans or water at all (4.5 x 109 years ago).8 Science tells us that the Earth's water probably came from cometary collisions that were common during the early history of the Solar System.9 The main biblical creation account (Genesis 1) begins after the formation of the Earth's oceans with a description of the Earth as a water-covered planet covered by dense clouds (4.0 x 109 years ago).10
3. The dense atmosphere is partially cleared so that light can strike the surface of the earth. (3.9 x 109 years ago).
4. Formation of a stable water cycle (3.9 x 109 years ago).11
5. Formation of continents, including an accurate description of the tectonic activity that produced the continents (2.7 x 109 years ago)12
6. Creation of plants on the land and their subsequent "production by the land," possibly including some naturalistic processes (0.9 x 109 years ago).13
7. Transformation of the atmosphere from translucent transparent as the Sun, Moon, and stars show through the atmosphere. (0.9-0.6 x 109 years ago)
8. Creation of swarms of small sea animals and their subsequent "great increase" or "teeming by the water" (consistent with the Cambrian explosion) possibly involving some naturalistic processes. (0.5-0.3 x 109 years ago)14
9. Creation of birds (140-60 x 106 years ago)15
10. Creation of sea mammals (60-50 x 106 years ago)16
11. Creation of land mammals that interact with humans (30-15 x 106 years ago)17
1. creeping land mammals (e.g., rodents)
2. large quadraped land mammals (e.g., cattle)
3. wild land mammals (e.g., carnivores)
12. Creation of modern humans (100-50 x 103 years ago)18

The Bible is unique among ancient creation accounts in that its description of the order of creation is 100% accurate.


References Top of page

1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth. (Genesis 1:1)
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. (Genesis 2:4)
Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out... (Isaiah 42:5)
"It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands, And I ordained all their host. (Isaiah 45:12)
For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it... (Isaiah 45:18)
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible... (Colossians 1:16)
"Worthy art Thou, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for Thou didst create all things, and because of Thy will they existed, and were created." (Revelation 4:11)
2. And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. (Genesis 1:3)
3. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)
He wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent (Psalms 104:2)
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (Isaiah 40:22)
4. God was acting before the beginning of our timeline and created our timeline:
...This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, (2 Timothy 1:9)
a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, (Titus 1:2)
No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)
To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)
5. The universe was formed at God's command, so that what was seen was not made out of what was visible. (Hebrews 11:3)
6. Who alone stretches out the heavens, And tramples down the waves of the sea; (Job 9:8)
Covering Thyself with light as with a cloak, Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain. (Psalms 104:2)
It is He who sits above the vault of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. (Isaiah 40:22)
Thus says God the Lord, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk in it, (Isaiah 42:5)
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone" (Isaiah 44:24)
"It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands, And I ordained all their host." (Isaiah 45:12)
"Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together." (Isaiah 48:13)
That you have forgotten the Lord your Maker, Who stretched out the heavens, And laid the foundations of the earth; That you fear continually all day long because of the fury of the oppressor, As he makes ready to destroy? But where is the fury of the oppressor? (Isaiah 51:13)
It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom; And by His understanding He has stretched out the heavens. (Jeremiah 10:12)
It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom, And by His understanding He stretched out the heavens. (Jeremiah 51:15)
The burden of the word of the Lord concerning Israel. Thus declares the Lord who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, (Zechariah 12:1)
7. "Do you know the ordinances of the heavens, or fix their rule over the earth?" (Job 38:33)
8. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; (Proverbs 8:24)
9. Chyba, C. and C. Sagan. 1992. Endogenous production, exogenous delivery and impact-shock synthesis of organic molecules: an inventory for the origins of life. Nature 355: 125-132.
10. And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. (Genesis 1:2)
"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding... Or who enclosed the sea with doors, When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb; when I made a cloud its garment, and thick darkness its swaddling band" (Job 38:4-9)
11. Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." And God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. (Genesis 1:6-7)
12. Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:9-10)
Thou didst cover it with the deep as with a garment; The waters were standing above the mountains... The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which Thou didst establish for them. Thou didst set a boundary that they may not pass over; That they may not return to cover the earth. (Psalms 104:6-9)
The LORD by wisdom founded the Earth; By understanding He established the heavens. By His knowledge the deeps were broken up... (Proverbs 3:19)
13. Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with seed in them, on the earth"; and it was so. And the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:11-12)
14. Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures..." (Genesis 1:20a)
15. ... and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens." (Genesis 1:20b)
Modern birds created by 55 x 106 years ago:
Feduccia, A. Explosive evolution in tertiary birds and mammals. Science 267: 637-638, 1995.)
16. And God created the great sea monsters, and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:21)
Appearance of modern whales 50 x 106 years ago:
Gingerich, PD., Raza, SM., Arif, M, Anwar, M, and Ahou, X. Nature 368: 844-847, 1994.
17. Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:24-25)
18. Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. (Genesis 1:26-27)
19. Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for light by day, And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The LORD of hosts is His name: "If this fixed order departs From before Me," declares the LORD, "Then the offspring of Israel also shall cease From being a nation before Me forever." (Jeremiah 31:35-36)
 
SerbMarko

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this is for IronSlave

Doesn't Genesis One Contradict Genesis Two?
by Rich Deem
Introduction

Genesis chapters one and two describe the creation of the universe, the earth, and life on the earth. Some have said that these accounts are purely mythology. One of the reasons for this perception is because of the apparent contradiction between chapters one and two in the creation accounts. Chapter one describes the creation of plants followed by the creation of animals then humans. Chapter two seems to describe the creation of humans followed by the creation of plants then animals. If this assessment is true, it would seem that there is a contradiction between the creation accounts of Genesis 1 and 2.
Genesis one

Genesis one, the first chapter of the Bible, begins with the creation of the "heavens and earth"1 - a phrase that describes the entire universe. The Genesis one account is notable for being sequential, since the events are listed numerically by the day in which they occurred. Where does this creation take place? Locations mentioned include the heavens (the Hebrew termshamayim can refer to the atmosphere, interstellar space, or God's abode),2 earth (the Hebrew term erets can refer to the entire planet, a people group, or a local piece of geography),3 Sun, moon, and stars.4 How do we know the Hebrew term erets refers to the entire planet as opposed to local geography? Verse 2 describes the "surface of the deep,"5 which describes the primordial ocean.6 Subsequent verses indicate that there was no land until God caused it to appear from the midst of the waters.7 These facts, in the absence of specific place names, suggests that Genesis one describes creation on a global scale.

Besides describing the formation of land and seas, Genesis one describes the creation of plants and animals. The account begins with the creation on plants. Following this is the creation of birds, large sea creatures and swarming sea life. On the final "day," God creates the large grazing mammals and carnivores, along with small scurrying mammals. Creation culminates with the creation of mankind - the last creatures God creates. For a more detailed explanation, see The Literal Interpretation of the Genesis One Creation Account and Day-Age Genesis One Interpretation.
Genesis two

Contrary to what many "scholars" have reported, Genesis two is not a retelling of Genesis one. How can we determine this to be true? First, we should examine the overall context. Genesis two is considerably different in regard to the emphasis of the content. Genesis one dedicates 4 verses (13%) to the creation of humans, beginning with verse 26. However, Genesis two dedicates 19 verses (76%) to the creation of humans, beginning with verse 7. Actually, since there are no real chapter breaks in the original Hebrew manuscripts, the story of the creation of humans continues throughout chapter 3 (another 24 verses). Obviously, the emphasis of the two "versions" is quite different. Part of the problem understanding this passage is because of the poor choice of English words in the common translations. The Hebrew word erets can be translated as "earth" (meaning global) or "land" (referring to a local geographical area). In the Old Testament, erets almost always refers to local geography and not the planet as a whole. We need to examine the context to determine whether erets refers to the entire earth or only a portion of it.

In contrast to Genesis one, there are no indications that the text is referring to global creation. In fact, Genesis 2 begins with God planting a garden8 in a place called Eden, whose location is described in the text that follows. In all, there are three other place names mentioned along with four rivers (verses 10-14). The second place name is Havilah, which is thought to be near the Caspian Sea.9 The third is Cush, which is thought to be a location in Southern Egypt or Ethiopia.10 The fourth is Assyria, which constitutes modern Iraq and Iran.11 Of the four rivers described in the text, only two are definitively identifiable. The Tigris12 and Euphrates13 Rivers run though Iraq and Iran. All the events of Genesis 2 occur in Eden, which is bounded by the three other locations, putting it within the Mesopotamian flood plain.

The narrative continues with descriptions of creation events. Adam was placed in the garden to cultivate it. God brought to Adam the animals He had already created for him to name.14 Since a suitable companion was not found for Adam, God created Eve.15 The narrative concludes with the initiation of the first marriage.16 All the creation descriptions in Genesis two can be attributed to the preparation of a place in which the first humans will live. Therefore, Genesis two further develops the account of mankind's creation at the end of the sixth day.
Conclusion Top of page

Genesis 1 is the account of the creation of the universe and life on planet earth as it happened in chronological sequence. Genesis 2 is simply an expanded explanation of the events that occurred at the end of the sixth creation day - when God created human beings. Genesis one provides virtually no details about the creation of human beings (other than the idea that humans were created in the image of God). For a book that is dedicated to the relationship between humans and God, four verses seems like a rather poor explanation for the creation of God's preeminent creature. This is because Genesis one was never intended to stand apart from Genesis 2 and 3. Genesis 2 describes God's preparation of a specific location on earth (Eden) for habitation by the first human beings. Part of the confusion results from our English translations, which use the term "earth" when the Hebrew would better be translated "land."
 
Skeptic

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if God is to exist... he must be comprised of energy of some sort, yet we have not detected such energy.
 
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if God is to exist... he must be comprised of energy of some sort, yet we have not detected such energy.

"God" is the Sum Total of Universal Energy

The Bible says God is a spirit (John 4:24). It also says that the spirit, given by God, is what gives man understanding (Job 32:8). And finally, it says that God is light (I John 1:5).

It is important to understand that ancient man described God with an ancient vocabulary and ancient idea sets, but that we can breathe new life into these verses by understanding what was really being said.

What is light? It's energy. When a person is brain dead, no electrical activity registers on a EEG test. Why? Because his spirit, which is what brings life to the body and understanding to the mind, is electrical energy. And when the spirit leaves the body, the body dies because the energy which powered the body is no longer present. God is light, so he is energy, and both God and we are spirit beings. So God, and light, and energy, and the essence of each of us as spirit beings, is all the same. We are all made up of the same physical and spiritual essence: energy.

God is energy.
 
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If god was made up of that much energy, then there would have to be a source of this energy. Something needs to fuel the energy.
 
Ironslave

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$10,000 to the first person who can explain to me physiologicaly, any of the following.

1) How Mary got pregnant without getting creampied.

2) How Jesus could be dead for like 72 hours (considering you start to get massive brain cell death in 4 minutes) and come back alive.

bible_fiction2-1.jpg
 
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zombies are real.... it says so in the movies :uhoh2:
 
Arcane1129

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Skeptic, who says God, if he exists, would have to obey the laws of science- which he would have created?

If God exists and the Bible is true, why would the source of all matter and energy, an omnipotent deity, need fuel?
 
Skeptic

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how can god exist without a fuel source if he is indeed matter and energy?

He created the universe out of a likeness of himself yes? so if all energy in the universe needs a fuel source or an ignition... then he created it this way out of what he is himself.
 
Arcane1129

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how can god exist without a fuel source if he is indeed matter and energy?

He created the universe out of a likeness of himself yes? so if all energy in the universe needs a fuel source or an ignition... then he created it this way out of what he is himself.

I personally don't believe that if he exists he would be matter or even energy as we know it- more of a force or spirit unknown to us at this time (just like how scientists say that what they don't understand will come in time).

And he created man in the likeness of himself I believe, not the universe. And even if he did, likeness of himself means not exactly- only certain traits would have been passed. A deity/god, by definition, would not be confined to the same limitations we or what they have created are.

Btw, I'm not saying I'm a die hard believer that God exists. I just want to clear up things for both sides. If someone who believes in the Bible says something wrong about science- or simply doesn't understand it- and I know about it, I'll speak up for that too.
 
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SerbMarko you got my statements confused.

The question how the universe began is different to bible in a sense that science says there is no God, and he had no influence in the beginning of the Universe.

The question about how man came to be has no reference to how the bible depicts it. We evolved from non living matter, to living matter, whereas the Bible says God put us here. Completely different things.

Also, are you joking me ? You are actually twisting what the bible says so much in order to justify it's outdated mythology that I laughed at your posts.

Also "This is not to say that the Bible is vindicated by science; rather, it is science that is vindicated by the Bible." - You

Not correct. Science does not care about religion. Religion is the one that has to adapt continuously to the discoveries done by science. Religion does this to keep the little credibility it has left, while science does not care... it just keeps going on.

TLDR: Science goes forward while religion has to track it's footsteps back in order to keep sounding "real" and serious.
 
Arcane1129

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SerbMarko you got my statements confused.

The question how the universe began is different to bible in a sense that science says there is no God, and he had no influence in the beginning of the Universe.

The question about how man came to be has no reference to how the bible depicts it. We evolved from non living matter, to living matter, whereas the Bible says God put us here. Completely different things.

There's no scientific proof that we evolved from non living matter as I am aware- scientists have theorized about how to do it, but haven't yet. And even then that would require an extremely specific and controlled environment.

Btw, what's the current popular theory on the creation of the first matter? Anyone know?


Also, are you joking me ? You are actually twisting what the bible says so much in order to justify it's outdated mythology that I laughed at your posts.

Also "This is not to say that the Bible is vindicated by science; rather, it is science that is vindicated by the Bible." - You

Not correct. Science does not care about religion. Religion is the one that has to adapt continuously to the discoveries done by science. Religion does this to keep the little credibility it has left, while science does not care... it just keeps going on.

Any specific examples?

TLDR: Science goes forward while religion has to track it's footsteps back in order to keep sounding "real" and serious.

See red^
 
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$10,000 to the first person who can explain to me physiologicaly, any of the following.

1) How Mary got pregnant without getting creampied.

2) How Jesus could be dead for like 72 hours (considering you start to get massive brain cell death in 4 minutes) and come back alive.

bible_fiction2-1.jpg

Woah $10,000!!!!


Bump, cool post man, thanx.
 
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