How Long Do you Wait Between Your PWO Shake & Meal?

[theweapon]

immediately after training i take BCAAs and EAAs bot powder and pills, then i drink 46gs of whey then a nice bowl of pasta

 

[The_KM]

^^ make sure the amino acids you consume are non-glucogenic, don't wanna waste your money.

 

[The Creator]

^^ make sure the amino acids you consume are non-glucogenic, don't wanna waste your money.

Elaborate

good info your posting too bro, much appreciated.

 

[theweapon]

Elaborate

x2

 

[youngmusclejock]

x2

Amino Acids that can not be converted to glucose.

 

[The_KM]

Some essential amino acids can be converted to glucose, where as BCAA's are all non-glucogenic. Which is an alternate reason why people stick to BCAA's post workout aside from repair.

Amino Acids that can not be converted to glucose.

Bingo.

 

[theweapon]

Some essential amino acids can be converted to glucose, where as BCAA's are all non-glucogenic. Which is an alternate reason why people stick to BCAA's post workout aside from repair.



Bingo.

EAAs should be before working out, before bed and in the morning?

 

[youngmusclejock]

EAAs should be before working out, before bed and in the morning?

Not really following your reason here Frank.

What I am reading and guessing.. You are thinking that because EAA's can convert to glucose they need to be taken at those times? I am just not understanding. Sorry

Whole food should be used when possible. my .02 cents

 

[The Creator]

Gracias. I guess I should have figured that one out!

 

[The_KM]

Save your money and take the BCAA's when in the highest potential catabolic state (upon waking and post workout). This is why nutritional layouts/timings are so important.

Gracias. I guess I should have figured that one out!

No problem

 

[theweapon]

Save your money and take the BCAA's when in the highest potential catabolic state (upon waking and post workout). This is why nutritional layouts/timings are so important.



No problem

i get you thanks bro

 

[The_KM]

Anytime, glad I helped!

 

[tim290280]

EAAs should be before working out, before bed and in the morning?

EAAs are best before the workout yes. That is in the protein supplementation research. I'll post some abstracts soon in the articles section.

The other times I have seen no need for it.

PWO shakes are researched pretty well and depending on the type and duration of activity you need something like 1.2-1.5g/kg of nutrition from 0.3-0.4g/kg of protein and 1.0-1.2g/kg of carbs. A mix of whey and casein has been shown to be the best, but this isn't as important if you are eating a complex meal again an hour later.

 

[tim290280]

Posted:

Tipton protein nutrition abstracts

Kevin Tipton is the guy that has done a lot of the pre and post workout nutrition work. This is a selection of his published work. If a nutrition article doesn't cite Tipton or Robert Wolfe (correctly) then they may not actually have it correct. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 276: Vol. 276...

musclemecca.com

 

[Lionheart]

For post workout i take 40g of protein,40 grams of maltod.8 grams of creatine monohydrate and 10 of l-glutamine.<next meal would be 1h after that.

 

[The_KM]

For post workout i take 40g of protein,40 grams of maltod.8 grams of creatine monohydrate and 10 of l-glutamine.<next meal would be 1h after that.

100g of carbs are needed to restore full muscle glycogen capacity, just a thought. Also, save your money with glutamine, it's ineffective. Good plan though.

A mix of whey and casein has been shown to be the best, but this isn't as important if you are eating a complex meal again an hour later.

I don't, and won't see why casein is needed if your next meal is subsequent. If this idea was highly accurate it'd have a higher abundance in the bb world.

 

[Ironslave]

I don't, and won't see why casein is needed if your next meal is subsequent. If this idea was highly accurate it'd have a higher abundance in the bb world.

Not necessarily, keep in mind that many in the bodybuilding world think that concentration curls are good for the "upper bicep".

Casein has been shown to be effective post workout. Keep in mind that as far as gastric emptying goes, casein isn't going to delay anything else from even starting to empty by a significant degree. It will take longer for total emptying, but that's not going to happen for a while anyways.


EFFECTS OF WHEY PROTEIN SUPPLEMENTATION WITH CASEIN OR BCAA & GLUTAMINE ON TRAINING ADAPTATIONS I: BODY COMPOSITION
Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise: Volume 35(5) Supplement 1 May 2003 p S395

This study examined whether whey protein supplementation (fortified with casein [slow digesting protein] or BCAA & glutamine [fast digesting anabolic amino acids]) affects body composition alterations during resistance-training. 44 resistance-trained males (31±8 yrs, 81±16 kg) participated in a standardized 10-week resistance-training program. In a double blind and randomized manner, subjects supplemented their diet with either 48 g/d of a carbohydrate placebo (P); 40 g/d of whey protein + 8 g/d of casein (WC), or 40 g/d of whey protein + 3 g/d BCAA +5 g/d L-glutamine (WBG). At 0, 5, and 10 weeks of supplementation, subjects were weighed and had body composition determined using DEXA. Dietary records were recorded every two weeks. Data were analyzed by repeated measures ANOVA and are presented as means ± SEM changes from baseline. Results revealed no significant differences among groups in total energy intake or training volume. Significant interactions (p < 0.05) were observed among groups in body mass (P 0.2±0.4; WC 1.9±0.7; WBG 0.2±0.5 kg) and fat free mass (P 0.1±0.3; WC 1.8±0.6; WBG 0.0±0.3 kg) with no significant differences observed in fat mass or percent body fat. Post-hoc analysis revealed that subjects who ingested WC experienced greater gains in body mass and fat free mass during training. Results indicate that WBG supplementation during training does not affect body composition alterations in comparison to an isoenergetic carbohydrate placebo. However, WC supplementation promoted greater gains in body mass and FFM possibly due the impact of casein on delaying gastric emptying and/or promoting a more prolonged increase in amino acid levels

 

[PrinceVegeta]

^^ interesting read!

 

[tim290280]

I don't, and won't see why casein is needed if your next meal is subsequent. If this idea was highly accurate it'd have a higher abundance in the bb world.

Not necessarily, keep in mind that many in the bodybuilding world think that concentration curls are good for the "upper bicep".

Casein has been shown to be effective post workout. Keep in mind that as far as gastric emptying goes, casein isn't going to delay anything else from even starting to empty by a significant degree. It will take longer for total emptying, but that's not going to happen for a while anyways.


EFFECTS OF WHEY PROTEIN SUPPLEMENTATION WITH CASEIN OR BCAA & GLUTAMINE ON TRAINING ADAPTATIONS I: BODY COMPOSITION
Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise: Volume 35(5) Supplement 1 May 2003 p S395

This study examined whether whey protein supplementation (fortified with casein [slow digesting protein] or BCAA & glutamine [fast digesting anabolic amino acids]) affects body composition alterations during resistance-training. 44 resistance-trained males (31±8 yrs, 81±16 kg) participated in a standardized 10-week resistance-training program. In a double blind and randomized manner, subjects supplemented their diet with either 48 g/d of a carbohydrate placebo (P); 40 g/d of whey protein + 8 g/d of casein (WC), or 40 g/d of whey protein + 3 g/d BCAA +5 g/d L-glutamine (WBG). At 0, 5, and 10 weeks of supplementation, subjects were weighed and had body composition determined using DEXA. Dietary records were recorded every two weeks. Data were analyzed by repeated measures ANOVA and are presented as means ± SEM changes from baseline. Results revealed no significant differences among groups in total energy intake or training volume. Significant interactions (p < 0.05) were observed among groups in body mass (P 0.2±0.4; WC 1.9±0.7; WBG 0.2±0.5 kg) and fat free mass (P 0.1±0.3; WC 1.8±0.6; WBG 0.0±0.3 kg) with no significant differences observed in fat mass or percent body fat. Post-hoc analysis revealed that subjects who ingested WC experienced greater gains in body mass and fat free mass during training. Results indicate that WBG supplementation during training does not affect body composition alterations in comparison to an isoenergetic carbohydrate placebo. However, WC supplementation promoted greater gains in body mass and FFM possibly due the impact of casein on delaying gastric emptying and/or promoting a more prolonged increase in amino acid levels

So I'm saying that the casein slowing the gastric emptying isn't as important if you are consuming a PWO shake and then another meal reasonably quickly that contains meat and vegetables as these will also slow gastric emptying.

I personally prefer to mix my PWO shake in milk so that I get some casein that way. Although I don't consume enough carbs PWO, according the stuff I've read its about 88-105g that I need (for an 88kg guy the 105 would be for heavy workloads like footy training for over an hour).

Where are you getting the 100g recommendation from Kev? Have you got the abstract?

 

[Ironslave]

I think I've said this before, just frickin eat! I'd suggest if you're a sucker for the minor details, and one who really wants to do something optimally:

Cottage cheese/yogurt around an hour before a workout.
Half an hour before, 10g leucine
During workout, BCAA brand like Xtend with a scoop of Gatorade.
After workout, whey protein with some dextrose, leucine, creatine.

Go home and eat chicken/pasta.