i want to see people replying now to phil
Although I have the utmost respect for Phil's opinion and achievements, we all know that pros are not the best source as examples or info for many reasons. They have far superior genetics than others, supps, and revolve their whole lives around bodybuilding. Given these 3 main factors he can do smith squats and grow but that doesn't argue with the fact that you should do free weight squats over smith. The point of training is optimizing your time in the gym and getting the most out of your training so you can go about your every day life. Free weight squats > smith squats.
I guess we are all just use to Ronnie Coleman training like a beast, then you have Jay doing this workout as his "hardest training ever" and "new wheels"
Thank you, it would be best so you don't further embarrass youself
Smith machine = bad for joints.
Plus it is kinda lame. Hey watch me squat 350lb that has been counterbalanced and doesn't require any balance and coordination on my part
Real squats are hard, it is the reason why they are the king of exercises.
Ari you would do well to not comment.Maxmonzter said:
I agree and disagree. The price you pay for greatness can ultimately decide your standing in regard to other champions. But considering Jay has had the imbalance between his legs for years now, you would think he would address it. Maybe him spending less time on machines and doing some single leg stuff would be a benefitPakiman said:
Pakiman said:
Phil I have a lot of respect for what yourself and the other pros put yourself through. But I will disagree that it is personal preference. It may be personal preference as to whether you are willing to sacrifice your joints/health/etc, but it isn't personal opinion or preference that it happens and is a bad example for the general training population. I do agree with your statement about Jay's training weights, the weight is going to be relative to your personal efforts, not someone else's.
The biomechanics of the smith machine squat are such that you change the force distribution. There are already stresses on the joints from the squat, but these are amplified when you are locked to a set plane of motion. The only study I have seen on forces in the smith machine squat showed transfer of forces and movement patterns to compensate for the fixed plane of motion. When this is related to the studies on squatting styles and the forces at the joints (referring to the wider stance shifting 1000x the forces from the knees to the hips) you can see what we are dealing with. With a smaller less stabile joint like the shoulder this is even more pronounced.
Now I'm not saying that you can't use a smith machine, but I am saying that for full ROM exercises (exceptions would be lockouts, possibly lunges, possibly shoulder presses) are having to transfer a lot of force as shear stresses. Shearing forces will catch up with the joints eventually. Now using them occassionally is fine, but there are better exercises.
In your own example you state that you have had less knee and back problems. How much of that is due to a possibly counterbalanced bar, or the transfer of force to the hip with less movement of the spine, or a change in the load, or something else? My point is that I'm not relying on personal opinion but on objective measurements. Ironslave is right that I am a bit cut and dried about this, and this is due to my light frame and how poorly I handle bad exercises. Others will tolerate them more or for longer, but it catches up eventually (you would be familiar with the older athletes comments about their shoulders, knees, back, etc).
Ari you would do well to not comment.
I agree and disagree. The price you pay for greatness can ultimately decide your standing in regard to other champions. But considering Jay has had the imbalance between his legs for years now, you would think he would address it. Maybe him spending less time on machines and doing some single leg stuff would be a benefit
But that is completely irrelevant to my point. Jay is shown training, and people are remarking on how tough and hard it is. My point is that this is like reading a pro routine from Muscle and Fiction. We don't see all of the sets, we don't see the other training session that day, we don't understand how hard it is to train when you are that lean, etc. What we see is a guy "promoting" an exercise that most people will get little benefit from and probably do more damage to themselves than a good old fanshioned free weight ATG squat.
Make your excuses for not squatting properly somewhere else please. I would also like to point out I don't appreciate attacks on myself or others on this board :bball:
