My Take On McCain's POW Experience

[Flex]

Ok, after hearing this crap for several pages...

If John McCain did agree to come home, he would have been looked upon in shame, that is something he couldn't do. John McCain is a man of honor.

It's not that fact that he was a POW, it's the fact that he put is country first. He could have left, but he stayed, knowing he would have it hard. John McCain put his country first and his self last, John McCain is the definition of a Patriot.

...I thought it'd be a good idea to add my 2cents. I wonder if Braaq will be interested in a debate?




"You are so brainwashed, it's pathetic. The media created John McCain, the same way they made Rudy Giuliani out to be a 9/11 hero.

Did you know McCain lost 5 aircrafts in less than a decade? Your "hero" was a terrible pilot and never would of stepped foot into a military aircraft if it wern't for his four star admiral daddy. Only once was he shot down, and for all we know he crashed that jet too. In the meantime, John landed into a lake and a Vietnemese saved his life.

After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain

Some hero.

"omg please don't hurt me! i'll tell you everything you wanna know, just get me to a hospital!"

"Reds Say PW Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral . . . Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of United States Commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical treatment he has received since being taken prisoner." Saigon-UPI, June 4, 1969

After the Vietnemese found out who your "hero's" daddy was, he was treated like a god. He cooperated and gave the enemy all the information they wanted to hear.

So much for "mccain was trapped in a box while beaten and tortured for 5 whole years!"

"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain

I could be wrong, but wouldn't a real "hero" rather die than give away military secrets?

Phoenix New Times, March 25, 1999 -- Two former POWs, Air Force Colonels Ted Guy and Gordon "Swede" Larson, said in a feature article that while they could not guarantee that McCain was not physically harmed, they doubted it. Both Guy and Larson were senior ranking officers (SRO's) in McCain's POW camp at a time he claims he was in solitary confinement and being tortured.
Larson told the New Times, "Between the two of us, it's our belief, and to the best of our knowledge, that no prisoner was beaten or harmed physically in that camp [known as 'The Plantation'].
"My only contention with the McCain deal is that while he was at The Plantation, to the best of my knowledge and Ted's knowledge, he was not physically abused in any way. No one was in that camp. It was the camp that people were released from."

As you can see, your "hero" is a phony, a liar, a coward. While you my friend, are a sucker for believing every last detail.

Honestly, the story is rather pathetic. He crashes his jet into a lake, a Vietnemese risks his life to save him, then after 3 days of torture he gives away military information in return for medical treatment. 5 1/2 years of cowardness later, he receives 28 medals for his entire 20 hours of career combat. Awesome.

"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."

Sounds to me like the Vietnemese that rescued John at his crash in North Vietnam is more of a hero than McCain. Maybe that Viet should run for president too, if only he was born in the United States. Hmmmmm, wait a minute...McCain wasn't born here either.

John McCain. Me first. Country last."

 

[Daniel Andersson]

 

[Tonyk212000]

Flex your assessment is spot on. Him being a a huge war hero was all an illusion to naive americans we see it on TV.

 

[Rageking]

..wow didnt know that

 

[Ironslave]

John McCain: biggest fag in war history.

http://www.musclemecca.com/showthread.php/john-mccain-biggest-fag-war-26558.html

 

[Flex]

I'm pwning these fools.

McCain flew 23 successful missions, he never lost 5 plans, that was a rumor that was disproved, the navy actually commended his flying skills. John McCain lost 2 plans, due to engine failure.

It's funny that you call me brainwashed, yet you're the one that believes this garbage. They were going to let him go because his father was an admiral, he chose to stay behind because it basically would have branded him an unofficial traitor if he left.

Just give up this debate, you're too brainwashed and blind to win.

Funny that you say he had 23 "successful" missions when he was shot down on his 23rd. 23 missions that combined for a full twenty hours, what a hero! John McCain achieved nothing compared to most other Vietnam veterans.

John McCain DID lose 5 jets, this is a FACT. Only one of these losses were due to engine failure. The first jet crashed in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay practicing landings. Then, his second crash was caused by flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula. It really doesn't matter how many jets he lost, the point is he was a very poor student and pilot. But, because of his father and grandfather he graduated from the U.S. Navy Flight School.

"Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale's Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."

Now I find it very amusing that you claim I believe "garbage" when I posted words that came directly from John McCain himself. He practically admitted he was a coward after he came home, now after years of MSM propaganda he expects to be forever be known as a war hero giving him a free ride through Washington.

They were going to let him go because his father was an admiral, he chose to stay behind because it basically would have branded him an unofficial traitor if he left.

Can't argue with that, although they also offered to let him go to show other POW's they will also release them if they cooperate the way John McCain did by giving away all the U.S. military secrets.

Does John McCain deserve some respect? Yeah sure, he did after-all risk his life bombing Vietnam. However, he's not even close to the hero you all have pictured in your itty-bitty minds.

 

[Flex]

Buddy, we are too brainwashed? You probably sit there watching MSNBC and basically every other media source (people magazine or US weekly in your case) and believe everything you hear. I can tell you that my second cousin is a Democratic senator and has been for 20 years and she even admits to how their party is basically there for special interest groups. Honestly if you are a liberal than you are a fool.

And you are right, McCain gave away U.S. intelligence - that's why he was picked as the Republican Primary.

lol, I feel sorry for how lost you are kid.

I'm neither for Republicans nor Democrats. Both parties are too similar now days, do you really believe there will be "change" with either candidate? Maybe small difference in tax increases, but that's about all. McCain is not like another Bush,it's like electing Dick Cheney (which is worse than Bush). Even if Obama pulled our troops out of Iraq (which will have to happen anyways) he'll just get us into another mess invading Iran and other middle eastern countries. I'm not here to argue the left and right, it's a waste of time. I'm here to prove that the majority of you people are sheep.

Your last statement just proves how lost you really are. Your argument basically is just because someone wins the Republican ticket means they are the best person for the job. What you fail to realize, is the tiny reasons people decide to vote for candidates.

"I'm voting for Mike Huckabee cuz he believes in God!!!"

"I'm voting for Mitt Romney cuz he's Mormon!!!"

"I'm voting for Rudy cuz I saw him on t.v. on 9/11!!!"

"I'm voting for Hillary cuz she's a chick!!!"

"I'm voting for Obama cuz he's black!!!"


Now, don't tell me these arn't reasons people voted for them. Otherwise, explain to me why did Romney dominate the Nevada caucus? Why did Huckabee dominate the Iowa caucus? and why do the majority of blacks vote for Obama?

It's pretty obvious, because American voters are stupid. You can't argue that.

 

[Braaq]

Flex your assessment is spot on. Him being a a huge war hero was all an illusion to naive americans we see it on TV.

Yes it is, I agree... but I think that Obama's preach for "CHANGE" is an even bigger illusion that naive American's have fallen for as well.

 

[Braaq]

I agree that his "POW" and "War Hero" touting is getting very old and pointless in this campaign. But to act as if anyone would have acted any different when faced with death and torture is crazy. Also, in Vietnam we lost one out of three planes so the likeliness he was shot down is high considering you only mentioned the two crashes were doing training doesn't prove much other than he was not the best pilot from the get go. Disrespecting a man's contribution to his country regardless of who his father was or how it turned out in this scenario is just wrong IMO. But it is also wrong for him to play this card so much during his campaign. It should be known that McCain was a POW but not brought up by him. If others want to praise him for it then let them, but he needs to stop praising himself before he brings further scrutiny to himself about the subject.

 

[Flex]

I know Braaq, as you can see I even tried to walk off the subject of 5 lost jets because I found it irrelevant. It was only used to make a point that he wasn't a great pilot.

I just want to say, the John McCain of today is not the same John McCain of 10+ years ago. Hell, years ago I may have supported him, but he's one example of a politician changed through Washington.

 

[Flex]

Yes it is, I agree... but I think that Obama's preach for "CHANGE" is an even bigger illusion that naive American's have fallen for as well.

I'll agree with that.

But, if you think about it every candidate has attempted to ride the "change" bandwagon.

 

[Braaq]

I know Braaq, as you can see I even tried to walk off the subject of 5 lost jets because I found it irrelevant. It was only used to make a point that he wasn't a great pilot.

I just want to say, the John McCain of today is not the same John McCain of 10+ years ago. Hell, years ago I may have supported him, but he's one example of a politician changed through Washington.

Especially his change to the Evangelical Christian faith.. that is just going to far

 

[Braaq]

I'll agree with that.

But, if you think about it every candidate has attempted to ride the "change" bandwagon.

That is hilarious, and very true.
However, Obama's campaign slogan is "CHANGE".... that is it :wutyousay:

 

[Flex]

Haha, Psyborg I think you're first post was an oopsie. I think phoenix gets most of his information from the same people that did that zeitgeist movie and the 9/11 conspiracy theories. That's just a hunch though. There might be other people that thrive on misinforming the gullible people that believe everything they get off youtube or some random conspiracy site.

Incase you didn't notice, I posted multiple articles to back my position. Psyborg did not.

I will gladly debate anyone here that the United States government WAS NOT behind the attacks. If you asked whether someone inside the U.S. government gave the green light to follow through, the hell if I know; it's a possibility.

But for you to make an assumption that I believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories makes you look like a complete fool, because I strongly believe the complete opposite.


This is for any other idiots that would like to butt in and make assumptions, I'll give you my full assessment.

I don't believe in 9/11 conspiracies
I don't believe we f4ked landing on the moon
I don't believe in bigfoot
I don't believe in the lochness monster
I don't believe in guardian angels
I don't believe in ghosts
I don't believe in God
I don't believe in aliens
and I didn't do enough research on the J.F.K. assassination to make an educated decision

 

[Braaq]

What site are you debating this on? I would like to see it or get involved

 

[Flex]

What site are you debating this on? I would like to see it or get involved

What do you mean? It was a debate on this site.

In fact...I was debating YOU!

 

[Braaq]

What do you mean? It was a debate on this site.

In fact...I was debating YOU!

Seriously, though where was this?

 

[Ironslave]

Disrespecting a man's contribution to his country regardless of who his father was or how it turned out in this scenario is just wrong IMO.

What does this have to do with John McCain

 

[Tonyk212000]

Yes it is, I agree... but I think that Obama's preach for "CHANGE" is an even bigger illusion that naive American's have fallen for as well.

Your crazy but i like you


I need to quit posting when im tipsay!!!!

Im glad you agree that Flex's assesment is spot on. As ive stated before i have respect for someone who says something negative baout their candidate.

 

[Braaq]

What does this have to do with John McCain

Is this the only section you read or did you read Flex's post I was replying to, or are you kidding?