Official MMA News/Discussion Thread

[onebigeric]

Fedor has been an incredible fighter to date, but nothing in MMA endures without constant challenge. To quote the amazing film Real Genius, "That was yesterday. What have you done for me today?"

Fedor's last true and legitimately tough bout was against Mirko in '05. Martins was a tool/joke, Hunt (while I do like him) was not near Fedor's level at the time, Coleman was badly over the hilltear, he outweighed Lindland by a laughable degree, and Choi barely needs to be mentioned.

Fedor may have been the best at one time, and he still may be. The problem is that it's all theoretical without strong competition to back up the claim. No fighter, let alone a champion/former champion, 'earns' any easy walks in the world of mixed martial arts. As both a competitor and a long time fan I feel near-works such as those are a slap in the face of both the fighter and MMA itself.

This beautiful sport is a mountain, not a pegboard. If you want to truly be at the top, simply enough you have to fight the best to be there. I have yet to see Fedor reach that level again in my eyes, and I'm not sure that he ever will.

 

[CaptainCharisma]

^well said

 

[JS316]

^^ yeah some good posts there... question then: would Tim have beaten Choi?

If so how?

 

[Kanav]

Fedor has been an incredible fighter to date, but nothing in MMA endures without constant challenge. To quote the amazing film Real Genius, "That was yesterday. What have you done for me today?"

Fedor's last true and legitimately tough bout was against Mirko in '05. Martins was a tool/joke, Hunt (while I do like him) was not near Fedor's level at the time, Coleman was badly over the hilltear, he outweighed Lindland by a laughable degree, and Choi barely needs to be mentioned.

Fedor may have been the best at one time, and he still may be. The problem is that it's all theoretical without strong competition to back up the claim. No fighter, let alone a champion/former champion, 'earns' any easy walks in the world of mixed martial arts. As both a competitor and a long time fan I feel near-works such as those are a slap in the face of both the fighter and MMA itself.

This beautiful sport is a mountain, not a pegboard. If you want to truly be at the top, simply enough you have to fight the best to be there. I have yet to see Fedor reach that level again in my eyes, and I'm not sure that he ever will.

True but you have to realize that fedor himself states that hes not #1. Hes still humble and classy.

Bottom line, I hope to see some top tier fighters taking him on, because I enjoy watching him fight.

 

[onebigeric]

I have never insinuated that Fedor has declared himself number one, but that hasn't stopped most MMA publications/rankings from doing so. His humility is hands down the thing that I admire about him the most and I will always enjoy watching Fedor compete.

I too look forward to Fedor's manager delivering on the promise of M-1 being an open promotion, ergo netting him the opportunities he needs to face top-level competition. If the world wants to call him numero uno, he needs to be given opportunities to establish that as fact.

Word is that Faber and Pulver will be locking up pronto for the WEC 145lb title. Dana... MAKE THIS HAPPEN

 

[onebigeric]

^^ yeah some good posts there... question then: would Tim have beaten Choi?

If so how?

I believe Tim would've had more trouble with Choi than Fedor did, and ironically it would come down to reach. Timmah wouldn't be able to work his eternal and never welcome jab, seeing as how Choi's arms have a lot of range on him. His ground defense basically consits of flailing his legs into attempted triangles, but seeing as how he depends on his opponent's smaller size to facilitate that it would also be out the window.

Choi showed he has legitimate power in the way he battered and bruised Fedor's noggin with only a few strikes. Tim likes to maintain that he has the same, but his glass jaw and refusal to really engage negate any truth to that claim.

In all honesty (*and of course, this is just my opinion*), Tim's best chance would be a snooze-fest decision a'la Vera or Arlovski....or Monson....or, you could basically take your pick. He depends too much on matching up against opponents smaller than him, so taking that out of the equation would leave Tim scratching his lumpy head in confusion.

 

[JS316]

In all honesty (*and of course, this is just my opinion*), Tim's best chance would be a snooze-fest decision a'la Vera or Arlovski....or Monson....or, you could basically take your pick. He depends too much on matching up against opponents smaller than him, so taking that out of the equation would leave Tim scratching his lumpy head in confusion.

Yeah true, I just couldnt see Tim picking Choi off with a jab...as Choi has some expeiance in the K1 ring. He wouldn't take him down as Fedor also had trouble with the take down. I would back Choi via decision or KO.
I would love to see Tim fight Semmy Shilt,Choi or Cheik Kongo.. then we would see how well rounded he is (or isn't)

 

[CaptainCharisma]

some rumors ive come accross:

Takanori Gomi vs Frankie Edgar (UFC 83 in MONTREAL CANADA )

Andrei Arlovski vs Eddie Sanchez (March/April)

...and a reccent interview from Matt Serra

http://www.mmafightline.com/news/2008/14/matt_serra_312577.shtml

I love how Serra talks so much shit yet he calls Matt Hughes a dick

 

[PUMBA]

:crymeariver: Liddell beat Vanderlei, oh well back to Japan he must go.

Quick question, if you were asked which fighter never lived up to the hype or his potential would Vitor Belfort come up on your radar or maybe Jeremy Horn?

 

[JS316]

:crymeariver: Liddell beat Vanderlei, oh well back to Japan he must go.

Quick question, if you were asked which fighter never lived up to the hype or his potential would Vitor Belfort come up on your radar or maybe Jeremy Horn?

Gday there mate!

Vitor would be at the very top of the list by a long way.

 

[Kanav]

Gday there mate!

Vitor would be at the very top of the list by a long way.

can you really blame vitor tho, I mean its pretty tragic what he went through.

 

[CaptainCharisma]

i think Jeremy Horn taking Nathan Marquardt at UFC 81 (Horn's filling in for Thales Lietes (sp?))

...if true, OBE tell him i said good luck

 

[Kyle]

who wants to put money on the Lesnar v. Mir fight? lol

I'm calling Lesnar wins by TKO in the second round

 

[onebigeric]

i think Jeremy Horn taking Nathan Marquardt at UFC 81 (Horn's filling in for Thales Lietes (sp?))

...if true, OBE tell him i said good luck

I'm not sure, but I could call him and ask.

Vitor is a solid fighter who was thrown into the limelight too soon for his own good. His initial and title-nabbing win over Couture was a serious left-fielder, which made his later domination at the hands of Randy all the more pronounced. That beating coupled with the horrible instance with his sister would throw anyone way off track, and I love the fact that Vitor is back in MMA and racking up wins again.

Jeremy Horn is an amazing fighter and I don't feel he's overrated at all. Being caught in his last bout was a surprise, but no one thought Chuck would go down in under two minutes either. He's lost to some of the biggest names in the business and he's often taken those bouts on short notice. He's the only man to have taken Chuck further than three rounds, and don't forget that he did pick up a clean KO win against Forrest a few years back.

He's held a number of titles across various orginizations, but seeing as how many of them lack widespread exposure it's an easy thing to miss. Horn's only hitch is his tendency to compete often, hence most orginizations are itchy to sign him to anything. If he were to agree to Zuffa's exclusive competition clause, I could see him going far on contracts in the UFC.


If I were to compile a list of failed/failing athletes with theoretical (or actual)potential it would feature names such as Patrick Cote, Elvis Sinosic, Joe Riggs, Melvin Guillard, Din Thomas, David Loiuaseu (SP? It's The Crow, either way), Ricco Rodriguez, Matt Lindland, Edwin Dewees, BJ Penn (yeah, I just said it....), Nick Diaz, Karo Parysian, and a whole laundry list of others.

 

[fallen]

I gotta agree OBG with Penn he could've been so much better than he is. Oh and Mir will lose I'm sad to say

 

[CaptainCharisma]

^ tru say, if he hadnt decided to fight way out of weight class all the time....but thats what makes BJ a fuckin warrior...he'll never be afraid to fight anyone

 

[Kanav]

^ tru say, if he hadnt decided to fight way out of weight class all the time....but thats what makes BJ a fuckin warrior...he'll never be afraid to fight anyone

Agreed. Penn is the fucking man. I still want to see penn vs. gsp 2, and definitly penn vs. hughes 3. Hughes because BJ was DOMINATING that second fight and hughes came back from no where and put him in the weirdest position ive ever seen. Even as I was watching it, I couldnt imagine what penn could do to break out, cuz he was literally sealed. Props to hughes for that tho, damn impressive.

Seeing penn take out pulver was alot like gsp taking out hughes. Complete and utter domination.

 

[JS316]

Agreed. Penn is the fucking man. I still want to see penn vs. gsp 2, and definitly penn vs. hughes 3. Hughes because BJ was DOMINATING that second fight and hughes came back from no where and put him in the weirdest position ive ever seen. Even as I was watching it, I couldnt imagine what penn could do to break out, cuz he was literally sealed. Props to hughes for that tho, damn impressive.

Seeing penn take out pulver was alot like gsp taking out hughes. Complete and utter domination.

Agreed..when he's in shape he's the man.. add to your list BJ vs Gomi.. another good fight

 

[onebigeric]

Penn is a gifted fighter with an amazing lack of discipline. He's 2-3 in his last five fights, and that lack of focus has been the primary reason for that.

In his second fight with Hughes, he really wasn't 'dominating' per se. His tank looked better and he was looking good on the ground, but he was steadily losing the standup to Hughes. His sub attempt at the end of the second looked nasty but Hughes has a history of getting caught in similar positions late in the round and riding them out, ergo the attempt was just that (the fact that Rush beat him in this exact position was iciing on the cake for me)

Penn came out gassed in the third, and Hughes used the crucifix like clockwork just as he has a number of times in the past. Carlos Newton was in the same awful position but he had the presence of mind to get out....and then he was knocked out with Matt's insane powerbomb The fact that Penn tried to cop a fake 'broken rib' excuse only intensified BJ's overall lame rating; he was cocky and he gassed, but he'll never admit to something like that.

BJ goes into every fight overconfident and well-fed on his own hype, and it costs him. I favor Stevenson in their upcoming bout based on nothing more than his experience, consistency, and overall work ethic. If BJ doesn't pull his head out of his own butt (along with Rogan's) he'll roll into an embarrassing 2-4.

In all honesty I feel he's around the last person who deserves a shot at the newly vacant 155-lb belt as is. You could argue that the division isn't very deep, but that's simply not true. Beating a severly washed-up Jens Pulver[who's looking sharp again in WEC] doesn't qualify you for the potential duke in a division you haven't competed in for six years or so. I see Joe Lauzon, who actually played and beat Jens at his own game (if beating the former LW champ is a qualifier for a title shot, which is what the BJ 'huggers would have you believe), as being more deserving of facing Stevenson at this time. There is a locker room full of workers that deserve this shot much more than Penn does.

Situations like these are echoes of Frank Shamrock's wise observation in that Dana and the UFC are interested in pushing the marketable fighters, not the deserving ones. Lame, as money is laughably not an issue where the org is concerned

This, of course, is just my opinion.

 

[JS316]

Nice post.. definitely valid points OBE. You opened my eyes on a few things as I am a big BJ fan. I really like him as his JJ is so slick when he is motivated. I really would like to see him fight GSP with both guys coming in at their best and having 5 rounds.

I have to disagree with you though... i feel BJ does deserve a shot regardless of his recent loses. He lost to 2 high quality guys that would destroy any other LW guys fighting up a weight class. Also, Stevenson v Penn , IMO makes for an exciting match stylistically.
Better than Werdum vs Gonzaga, as even though they've apparently fought before, I think will bore the shit out of me.