Reason why im voting McCain, Please watch this...

[Beefcake]

My big issue is the wars. Look at all the harm that the current administration has done around the world, I don't see how anybody can remain apathetic to that.

I can see what you mean. But isn't hearing about the war or actually caring about what is still going on somewhat like the loop of Duality bannings? It happens so often, you tend not to even notice?

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely sympathetic to the U.S. and Candian Soldiers fighting in Iraq, but I can't see how people are still outraged or shocked by this war. I could see being in shock when the war first started (if you can remember that far back ). I know I was. I thought 'Fuck, what a pointless war' but as the days, months, and years passed it started to be an everyday thing. And after a while, you don't even notice any more. I hope I don't come off as callous, but the war is just a scapegoat to try and rid the world of 'the evil-doers' as Bush put it so eloquently before.

. but, what really took it to the next level for me, were these videos of Ron Paul. Here's a guy who is literally risking his life every time he speaks, yet still does. Through everything, he cannot be bought, nor can his integrity ever be compromised. If anybody thinks that one person can't make a difference, look at this man. Sure, he didn't win, and he didn't end the wars... but the generation of people he has inspired will make an impact that will certainly be noticed.

That's still one thing I can't wrap my mind around. How is it that he risked his life? If someone wanted him, or anyone else that they saw fit, dead, you can bet your ass it would have already happened.

I know some of the basics of Ron Paul's beliefs but don't see the point in continuing to worship this man who:
did not win any election
did not end wars
did not really do anything besides instill beliefs of chocolate streams and gumdrop rainbows.
We all want to see the war ended. We all want to see the world in peace. We all want things to be right again. But these are all things that take decades to achieve. I can almost gaurentee that if I walked up to 10 people on the street randomly, one might know who Ron Paul is. What good does it do to have a 'Revolution' that no one knows about? I could have the cure for cancer but if only 1% of the population knows about it, what good does it do anyone?

I can claim the same beliefs as RP.

Beefcake says: 'I WANT THE WAR ENDED NOW AND NO ONE WILL EVER GO TO BED HUNGRY AGAIN!'


I do appreciate these responses though =)

 

[Tonyk212000]

did not really do anything besides instill beliefs of chocolate streams and gumdrop rainbows.

LULZ

 

[Ironslave]

I can see what you mean. But isn't hearing about the war or actually caring about what is still going on somewhat like the loop of Duality bannings? It happens so often, you tend not to even notice?

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely sympathetic to the U.S. and Candian Soldiers fighting in Iraq, but I can't see how people are still outraged or shocked by this war. I could see being in shock when the war first started (if you can remember that far back ). I know I was. I thought 'Fuck, what a pointless war' but as the days, months, and years passed it started to be an everyday thing. And after a while, you don't even notice any more. I hope I don't come off as callous, but the war is just a scapegoat to try and rid the world of 'the evil-doers' as Bush put it so eloquently before.

Sure, many people are systemically desensitized, that easily tends to happen when we see what happens on TV, and don't experience the harms of it first hand. I know there are many people apathetic, but I'm not one of them. Frankly, the apathetic ones are the problem, as it's because they don't give a shit that all these disastrous policies can keep being implemented.

That's still one thing I can't wrap my mind around. How is it that he risked his life? If someone wanted him, or anyone else that they saw fit, dead, you can bet your ass it would have already happened.

He got death threats on a daily basis, I know this for 100% fact. I'm not sure if he still does, but during the heavy campaigning, there were private bodyguards around him pretty well everywhere, this I also know for a fact. If he got really close to the point of winning, the threats on him would have gotten a lot more serious.

I know some of the basics of Ron Paul's beliefs but don't see the point in continuing to worship this man who:
did not win any election
did not end wars
did not really do anything besides instill beliefs of chocolate streams and gumdrop rainbows.
We all want to see the war ended. We all want to see the world in peace. We all want things to be right again. But these are all things that take decades to achieve. I can almost gaurentee that if I walked up to 10 people on the street randomly, one might know who Ron Paul is. What good does it do to have a 'Revolution' that no one knows about? I could have the cure for cancer but if only 1% of the population knows about it, what good does it do anyone?

K, now you're starting to irritate me. The reason why so few people may know about him, or his policies weren't successful is because of apathetic people like you (this isn't an insult, some people are content with doing their own thing in their lives, in fact, most people are).

Did Ghandi or Mother Theresa actually "end" any wars? No, but they did great things for humanity, and promoting peace, like Dr. Paul has.

The problem is, too few people even care to do anything about it. It's an uphill battle for people like Me, Tech, Flex, and many others here who actually cared, were willing to donate money for the cause, spend time promoting policies of peace, and honest governments. The problem is, too many people want to see wars end, but they're too lazy and apathetic to get up from in front of their computer, go out, and do something about it.

 

[Duality]

Originally posted by Ironslave
K, now you're starting to irritate me. The reason why so few people may know about him, or his policies weren't successful is because of apathetic people like you (this isn't an insult, some people are content with doing their own thing in their lives, in fact, most people are).

Did Ghandi or Mother Theresa actually "end" any wars? No, but they did great things for humanity, and promoting peace, like Dr. Paul has.

The problem is, too few people even care to do anything about it. It's an uphill battle for people like Me, Tech, Flex, and many others here who actually cared, were willing to donate money for the cause, spend time promoting policies of peace, and honest governments. The problem is, too many people want to see wars end, but they're too lazy and apathetic to get up from in front of their computer, go out, and do something about it.

now this is a great post and i feel the same way. i must admit if there was one thing that this site opened my eyes too it was Ron Paul and what one man with true integrity and compassion for this nation could do.

beefcake i don't even get the point of your posts here. what are you trying to do/convey here? that you don't care about politics even if it "directly affects you" uhoh2? ok....we get it, you don't care, congradulations. IS is explaining why you should care and you just keep countering that you don't....pointless.

 

[Beefcake]

Disclaimer: What has been said below is in no way trying to be offensive or intended to be a personal attack.

Sure, many people are systemically desensitized, that easily tends to happen when we see what happens on TV, and don't experience the harms of it first hand. I know there are many people apathetic, but I'm not one of them. Frankly, the apathetic ones are the problem, as it's because they don't give a shit that all these disastrous policies can keep being implemented.

I don't know if I'd call it desensitization, but I certainly would call it a lack of intrest.

He got death threats on a daily basis, I know this for 100% fact. I'm not sure if he still does, but during the heavy campaigning, there were private bodyguards around him pretty well everywhere, this I also know for a fact. If he got really close to the point of winning, the threats on him would have gotten a lot more serious.

I don't doubt that he had threats, but take it as what it is. A threat. Nothing more. If the right people wanted him out, he would have been taken care of. He's not the Pope for christ's sake.

K, now you're starting to irritate me.

Sorry if you don't like what I've said, but deal with it. You (being a self-proclaimed master debator keke: I said master debator)) should know better than anyone that there are always two sides to an arguement. And ESPECIALLY seeing as how you are a moderator here at the Mecca, it implies that you moderate a heated arguement, not continue to debate with an I-don't-give-a-shit-what-you-say-no-one's-changing-my-mind mentality. Moderation should be when you step in to resolve an arguement or keep things civil. I'm in no way insulting you IS, in fact I admire that you stick to your guns no matter what is said about your favorite cantidate, but you take shit said about Ron Paul too personally and seriously. Relax man. Good god, it's not like I said your father's an asshole and your mum's a whore. I said esentially that Ron Paul hasn't done anything to deserve the hero worship he recieves. So what? Sue me.

Did Ghandi or Mother Theresa actually "end" any wars? No, but they did great things for humanity, and promoting peace, like Dr. Paul has.

Are you actually comparing Ron Paul to Mother Theresa or Ghandi?

The problem is, too few people even care to do anything about it. It's an uphill battle for people like Me, Tech, Flex, and many others here who actually cared, were willing to donate money for the cause, spend time promoting policies of peace, and honest governments. The problem is, too many people want to see wars end, but they're too lazy and apathetic to get up from in front of their computer, go out, and do something about it.

You're right. It's simply because people don't care. I'll be the first to say that if Ron Paul was in the running for presidency, I would be a supporter and might take intrest. But the fact of the matter is that he's not. People don't see this election as a positive thing. I can say that the vast majority of them see it as a 'lesser of two evils' situation. I'm not old enough to vote, but even if I was a U.S. Citizen of age, I doubt I would. Do I want some old trilobite, focused on war and winning at all cost, or do I want an inexperienced young guy, who flip-flops policies? I don't know about you, but neither sound too appealing to me.

IMO, Trying to believe that the United States will ever have an honest government is an exercise in futility.

 

[Duality]

Originally posted by Beefcake
Sorry if you don't like what I've said, but deal with it. You (being a self-proclaimed master debator ( I said master debator)) should know better than anyone that there are always two sides to an arguement. And ESPECIALLY seeing as how you are a moderator here at the Mecca, it implies that you moderate a heated arguement, not continue to debate with an I-don't-give-a-shit-what-you-say-no-one's-changing-my-mind mentality. Moderation should be when you step in to resolve an arguement or keep things civil. I'm in no way insulting you IS, in fact I admire that you stick to your guns no matter what is said about your favorite cantidate, but you take shit said about Ron Paul too personally and seriously. Relax man. Good god, it's not like I said your father's an asshole and your mum's a whore. I said esentially that Ron Paul hasn't done anything to deserve the hero worship he recieves. So what? Sue me.

my God. i read your whole post but this was easily the worst part. WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO POST IN HERE? this is the politics section beefcake, key word: politics. GOOD FOR YOU THAT YOU'RE IGNORANT ENOUGH TO NOT CARE. IS isn't trying to persuade you and he's answered you're questions very maturely. however when one keeps responding with "well i still don't care" and you basically insult his favorite politician/idol, it will irriatate anyone. so let's pretend the politics section is an A, B conversation, so you can C your way out of here

and btw your response to IS comparing Ron Paul to ghandi and mother theresa is very juvenile. he's comparing the impact one can have on a vast amount of people while not holding vast power. Ron Paul is comparable in this aspect to the aforementioned Theresa and Ghandi.


and i'm gonna leave a disclaimer here just like you have. this isn't really personal beefcake. it's more just like, ok...we get it....you don't care....please stop telling us you don't care. we do care and that's why this section is here.

 

[Ironslave]

I don't doubt that he had threats, but take it as what it is. A threat. Nothing more. If the right people wanted him out, he would have been taken care of. He's not the Pope for christ's sake.

I'm not denying that, I even said that if he got closer to winning, it would have been more of a problem. Regardless, he got threats, and he kept speaking his mind, no matter what.

Sorry if you don't like what I've said, but deal with it. You (being a self-proclaimed master debator keke: I said master debator)) should know better than anyone that there are always two sides to an arguement. And ESPECIALLY seeing as how you are a moderator here at the Mecca, it implies that you moderate a heated arguement, not continue to debate with an I-don't-give-a-shit-what-you-say-no-one's-changing-my-mind mentality. Moderation should be when you step in to resolve an arguement or keep things civil. I'm in no way insulting you IS, in fact I admire that you stick to your guns no matter what is said about your favorite cantidate, but you take shit said about Ron Paul too personally and seriously. Relax man. Good god, it's not like I said your father's an asshole and your mum's a whore. I said esentially that Ron Paul hasn't done anything to deserve the hero worship he recieves. So what? Sue me.

I didn't insult you either at all dude, I made sure to not do so. But, as a moderator, I can debate with people too . When do I have a "I dont give a shit...." mentality? It's pretty obvious that I certainly try to base my arguments through knowledge of history and such. But, you're not really making any arguments, you're just kinda saying that you don't care?

It was insulting that you just said he accomplished nothing, which is so false. He could have accomplished a lot more, but it was just that too few people really care to do anything about things. It's like running up a mountain of quicksand.

Are you actually comparing Ron Paul to Mother Theresa or Ghandi?

Yes.

You're right. It's simply because people don't care. I'll be the first to say that if Ron Paul was in the running for presidency, I would be a supporter and might take intrest. But the fact of the matter is that he's not. People don't see this election as a positive thing. I can say that the vast majority of them see it as a 'lesser of two evils' situation. I'm not old enough to vote, but even if I was a U.S. Citizen of age, I doubt I would. Do I want some old trilobite, focused on war and winning at all cost, or do I want an inexperienced young guy, who flip-flops policies? I don't know about you, but neither sound too appealing to me.

IMO, Trying to believe that the United States will ever have an honest government is an exercise in futility.

He did run for President, but again, the problem is that the apathetic people didn't take any interest. It's funny though, because pretty well everything he warned about economically for over a year campaigning (and many years before) is now coming true.

As such, now we are left with the lesser of two evils because people really don't take time at all to know why they like someone. There was an alternative, people didn't care. I know tons of passionate people who are apathetic about the general election, because they know that Obama and McCain really aren't much different, and both suck. But, the way the system works, they're all that's left.

 

[Ryeland]

even if it effected my life DIRECTLY and immediately, I still wouldn't give two shits about it.

There is an old quote, taken during world war II that speaks directly to what you said here.

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

Before the Nazi's were a force of military power, they were a political power. There were a lot of shady things that went on in the german governments before hitler came to power. If left unchecked by the population terrible atrocities can be committed by the people who are supposed to guide a country.

Politics, left unchecked and uncontested, will ruin a country and the lives of its citizens. Don't believe me, look at germany, look at russia. All one has to do is open the pages of a history book.

Its not about keeping up, its not about debating, its about your responsibility for living in a democratic society (in Canada we are more democratic than the states). It is your duty to make sure that no one will take advantage of you and your family. If you neglect your duty (VOTING/GETTING INVOLVED/BEING INFORMED) then you have no right to complain when the government screws with you.

Beef, we have a federal election in Canada in a few weeks, if you are of age i suggest you get informed, there are many issues on the table this year that will be hot points. Make sure you get your voice heard so that this country works for you and for everyone else as best it can. One vote may not make the world's most pronounced difference, but its gotta be better than doing and saying nothing at all.