Heath vs Cutler (Mr.Olympia 2008 Preview)

[Line]

You dont miss anything dont you?
Those weight figures was from Dexter himself. I dont recall the exact number but it was between 225-230lbs according to himself...He could have lied though..that I dont know

Ha, well I was just going to respond to the first idiotic post I saw then decided to go ahead and see what else I could disagree with.

I know Dex has said that's what his weight has been but I highly doubt it. I think Lonnie Teper has said on several occasions that Dex weighs less than he says but he remains quite illusory nonetheless. I only saw him briefly in person at the AC Expo last year and out side of his traps he wasn't outstandingly big. It's quite the opposite look on stage though.

 

[Daniel Andersson]

 

[mvsf1]

There are no areas in which Jay looks sharper than Phil, save maybe quad separation

Right.

there seems to be a clear dichotomy of the Cutler defense mechanisms: using size to defend his upper body and separation to defend the lower.

Not in my case and not it this Cutler vs Heath thing. Jay is bigger than Heath in ALL bodyparts, maybe not brachiallis, but you get my point. It's not only upper body Jay's legs are still MUCH (yeah, MUCH) bigger than Heath's.


Anyway, as you said we can call it genetic issues, but (and I'll said it once more) Heath's structure is the best since early Wheeler, but mass still fills more jugdes eyes than aesthethics.

 

[d.capodiferro]

You've only been here for two months so don't make generalizations about the site as there haven't even been any competitions to analyze since you've been a member. I'm not defending the site just for the sake of my status because there's a lot of fairly thoughtless things being said but yours isn't a very competent statement either.

This is absurd. I can tell you why you're wrong but won't bother because I could probably write 8 paragraphs from these two sentences alone (and will if you'd like).

Less.

Problem #1: You, as well as others, are over-exaggerating just how much of an effect the lights at the IM have. It's one thing to see it from the judges' perspective but when it comes to digital photography these days, we're likely getting filtered images that allow us to see the detail that truly is there, be it only for a moment. You can't honestly tell me that if Jay, in 2007 Mr. Olympia form, competed at the IM his hamstrings and glutes would match that of Heath's.

Problem #2: There's absolutely nothing wrong with Victor placing ahead of either Jay or Phil, provided he's better than them on that given day. At the 2007 AC, Vic was better than Heath and won. At the 2007 Mr. O, Vic was better and should have won. I'm as curious as everyone else to see how this three ring circus (four or five if you count Wolf and Dex) plays out at this year's O but I feel that Victor versus Phil is the most intriguing match-up as he's clearly already bested Cutler.

Problem #3: Calm down.

Yes, there he looked better than he did during prejudging but he still looked like hell.

Hyperbole = best. thing. ever.

2004 Olympia (way too puffy), 2004 AC (a travesty).

See above.

I agree with this for the most part but I wish you wouldn't still subtextually be making an effort to boost Jay a bit in your post. There are no areas in which Jay looks sharper than Phil, save maybe quad separation, but in this instance it's a matter of genetic shape and there are much better indicators we can look at. That being said, there's nothing wrong, of course, with genetics playing a substantial role in bodybuilding as I'm always the first one to defend them, especially in the case of muscular shape and the emphasis that should be put on it but there seems to be a clear dichotomy of the Cutler defense mechanisms: using size to defend his upper body and separation to defend the lower.

I agree with this.

See avatar.

Ridiculous.

They're also the same pictures that some have used to endlessly defend Cutler's supremacy. Also I commented on the lighting in my response to pussybutt.

You know it's not all good weight and Heath more than held his own against Gustavo who the judges apparently don't have much of a problem with in terms of the mass department. Back at the 2004 Olympia and throughout the 2005 season Baddel was considered a freak and on his way to becoming, if not already, a mass monster. Everyone (judges included) seems to forget that you don't have to weigh 275+ pounds to be Mr. Olympia. I don't understand why people blindly defend mass monsters winning shows when it hurts the sport in the long run, and not just in terms of exposure, which just won't happen either way.

This deservative sentiment is pretty worthless and shouldn't hold any weight in sport.

I agree with this.

i'm not criticizing the site but the "aesthetics' lovers".
whatever they and you say i won't change my mind: jay is much bigger=better than heat;just like, at the time, ronnie was better than flex or more recently ronnie was better than jay.

 

[d.capodiferro]

i'm proud to reveal you that 2008 mr olympia is gonna be from italy,my country.
nobody's gonna be more beautiful!

 

[Line]

Right.

As always.

Not in my case and not it this Cutler vs Heath thing. Jay is bigger than Heath in ALL bodyparts, maybe not brachiallis, but you get my point. It's not only upper body Jay's legs are still MUCH (yeah, MUCH) bigger than Heath's.

I guess this only quasi-dodges the issue I was speaking about. There's clearly a balance issue between Jay's upper and lower body and without seeing them on stage together I don't wouldn't say that it's fair to give Jay the blatant go-ahead in the mass department. Larger? Probably, but it may be closer than one would think and if that's the case the only logical (I know IFBB judging isn't logical) thing to do would be to penalize in terms of proportion and actually concede some ground to the aesthetic guys because the most prominently displayed muscle groups challenge that of a mass monster.

Anyway, as you said we can call it genetic issues, but (and I'll said it once more) Heath's structure is the best since early Wheeler, but mass still fills more jugdes eyes than aesthethics.

Right.

i'm not criticizing the site but the "aesthetics' lovers".
whatever they and you say i won't change my mind: jay is much bigger=better than heat;just like, at the time, ronnie was better than flex or more recently ronnie was better than jay.

I realize you were talking about those who favor aesthetics but besides overly backtracking towards the "judging criteria" defense you're speaking in definitives without any offering supporting points. Also, there were far more reasons than size that Ronnie was better than Jay or Flex Wheeler. Judges typically award "freaky" bodyparts on an otherwise balanced physique. Ronnie was the king of this in terms of being able to hold mass and conditioning while excelling in shapely musculature department in terms of back, hamstrings, glutes, chest, biceps, shoulders, traps.

If we're going to speak simply, yes, Jay wins because he's bigger based on the way shows, particularly the Olympia, are currently judged. That doesn't necessarily make it right though and falling into those sort of traps will only lead the sport into further trouble down the road.

 

[Pickle]

Right now everyone can beat Vic...he has a torn patella mate, and a injury like that can cause other tears up in the quad it self..I bet he still cant walk...And when he's recovered and can train legs again, he needs to build his strength up again...and thats not done over a night. Then the actuall tear might cause serious problem with his leg symmetri. And his legs was relatively bad before, with no sweep to the quads and "bad" seperation. This injury wont make it any better

But I hope he recovers 100%

Cutler has one leg bigger than the other maybe thats what the judges are looking for these days... Even with an injury I dont think Martinez will have worse symmetry then jay. Oh i went there.

 

[Tonka]

Phil will win the o some day but its not this year, cutler is too big and its a mass game. He also could come in surprisingly more definition this year with no mistakes.

 

[gqw06]

I think you suck at photoshopping and Phil wishes he could beat Jay. Jay's only what...50lbs. heavier on stage

 

[Line]

I think you suck at photoshopping and Phil wishes he could beat Jay. Jay's only what...50lbs. heavier on stage

And I think you suck at posting to the point where I thought you were a troll account, seeing how you haven't contributed anything but negativity to this site since joining in August and all. Keep toeing the line though. I recommend it.

 

[Daniel Andersson]

I think you suck at photoshopping and Phil wishes he could beat Jay. Jay's only what...50lbs. heavier on stage

Please tell me...have I EVER said that I'm good at it?
Dont waste your time, cause you wont find a post with that comment in it.
Other guys in here has said I am though...

 

[Tunen]

Please tell me...have I EVER said that I'm good at it?
Dont waste your time, cause you wont find a post with that comment in it.
Other guys in here has said I am though...

you are

 

[gqw06]

Line. Suck it. You're the amdin for a site that only has 11000 some odd members out of 7 billion on the planet. Yeah you're tight. You need to actually do something positive with the site and get it back to the way it was last Summer. Maybe then, without the stupid fucking bullshit rules, I wouldn't have such an attitude. Sweet internet lingo you nigger choad.

 

[Tunen]

 

[Tech]

Line. Suck it. You're the amdin for a site that only has 11000 some odd members out of 7 billion on the planet. Yeah you're tight. You need to actually do something positive with the site and get it back to the way it was last Summer. Maybe then, without the stupid fucking bullshit rules, I wouldn't have such an attitude. Sweet internet lingo you nigger choad.

GQW06 ILL TALK SHIT BOUT U N UR HOMIES ALL I WANT U PROB NUTHIN BUT A BUSTA BITCH! COME TO MY CITY ILL POP U UP GET U STR8 KILLED HOMIE U FUCKIN WAIT COME TO CALGARY CANADA ALBERTA YEA KNOW THE PROVINCE THAT U PROB DONT EVEN KNOW ABOUT BUT IT RICHER THEN 10 STATES I BET BIIIITCH SUCK MY PHAT COCK AND LIKE IT COME UP TO CALGARY AND ILL STR8 KILL U BITCH

 

[Tunen]

GQW06 ILL TALK SHIT BOUT U N UR HOMIES ALL I WANT U PROB NUTHIN BUT A BUSTA BITCH! COME TO MY CITY ILL POP U UP GET U STR8 KILLED HOMIE U FUCKIN WAIT COME TO CALGARY CANADA ALBERTA YEA KNOW THE PROVINCE THAT U PROB DONT EVEN KNOW ABOUT BUT IT RICHER THEN 10 STATES I BET BIIIITCH SUCK MY PHAT COCK AND LIKE IT COME UP TO CALGARY AND ILL STR8 KILL U BITCH

classic

 

[Daniel Andersson]

GQW06 ILL TALK SHIT BOUT U N UR HOMIES ALL I WANT U PROB NUTHIN BUT A BUSTA BITCH! COME TO MY CITY ILL POP U UP GET U STR8 KILLED HOMIE U FUCKIN WAIT COME TO CALGARY CANADA ALBERTA YEA KNOW THE PROVINCE THAT U PROB DONT EVEN KNOW ABOUT BUT IT RICHER THEN 10 STATES I BET BIIIITCH SUCK MY PHAT COCK AND LIKE IT COME UP TO CALGARY AND ILL STR8 KILL U BITCH

LOL..I just cant believe you saved that

 

[Daniel Andersson]

Line. Suck it. You're the amdin for a site that only has 11000 some odd members out of 7 billion on the planet. Yeah you're tight. You need to actually do something positive with the site and get it back to the way it was last Summer. Maybe then, without the stupid fucking bullshit rules, I wouldn't have such an attitude. Sweet internet lingo you nigger choad.

It was fun to have you here ....

































.........not

 

[Braaq]

Line. Suck it. You're the amdin for a site that only has 11000 some odd members out of 7 billion on the planet. Yeah you're tight. You need to actually do something positive with the site and get it back to the way it was last Summer. Maybe then, without the stupid fucking bullshit rules, I wouldn't have such an attitude. Sweet internet lingo you nigger choad.

First, why are you comparing the number of members we have to the population of the planet? (Oh and you off by a few billion) How does that make your arguement relavent?
Also, considering that this is a bodybuilding forum which is a sport that is about as underground as they come. So a not very mainstream sport based forum has 11,000 members from all around the world. I don't know about you, but that is impressive considering. But from the look of your posts your not a very good critical thinker so I would not expect you to think about that.
Also, Line is not trying to act like anything special. You are making retarded, insulting posts that add nothing to the subject of the thread. If your going to have an attitude for whatever rules you think we have, then do us all a favor and leave. Im sure we can survive without you.

 

[Braaq]

LOL..I just cant believe you saved that

That is actually a post PUMPIN made toward me a while back because he insulted the US, so I talked shit about Canada... I guess he took it pretty personal.
And to think I gave him advice on what is the best way to do cardio