The Dark Knight

[Fatality]

Just saw the movie today and it was good. Not the best movie ever made; even though I don't have a favorite. This movie, I can see did have a few holes in it, but nonetheless, it's well deserving. The visual effects and characters were amazingly outstanding. Heath Ledger's performance is outstanding, and he did steal the show from Batman's raspy voice. The Joker played an outstanding role. From a scale of one to ten, I'd give it an 8.5.

 

[Line]

As of now, my rating is a 7/10. I don't think many of you guys even realize how I rate films or what a 7 means.

Take the stick out of your ass Line, it was just a figure of speech. I'm not a film critic, but if I were I would not watch one single performance and base a rating off that.

If you know how serious I am about cinema why make such a paper argument against something I said?

Ok, another guess. Because Christopher Nolan left directing your favorite type of movies such as Momento, for more money in Batman. I'd find it hard to believe these reasons had nothing to do with your harsh rating.

Memento is his best film, yes, but I don't feel that Nolan is all that talented as is. If anything this film is a step up from The Prestige, which I would credit as his worst picture. Also, I'm not one to hold needless grudges against filmmakers. You can keep guessing or you can just wait for my review.

What's your point? There's almost no better movie to see for some action, thrill, and excitement. 90% of America would agree with me on that.

You're a smart guy and I respect you which is why I find it concerning that you care what 90% of America thinks. It's fine if you enjoyed the film on some level but formally speaking it's a terrible film. I can see how dumb fun is appealing on some levels but, as is the case here and with this year's Wanted, I don't see what was actually fun about that movie or what the purported response to it is.

Not that that makes a difference, but when I said it was a good movie; I never meant it as an oscar worthy film.

I understand that.

It's just a great film for a good time. You seriously need to loosen up when you watch movies.

Again, I don't see what is fun about these pictures at all. Also, I've clearly evolved as a moviegoer and have different tastes now than I did even a year ago. Sure, I used to have fun watching films and still can but I'd much rather concern myself with the intellectual stimulation I get from watching greater works of art than mere popcorn flicks. Most movies, at their heart, are manipulative and hardly escapist fare anymore. Often times filmgoers only concern themselves with enjoying something for "what it is" yet they hardly want to talk about what is actually going on in the film beneath superficialities and technical achievements. There are still numerous considerations underlying the surface of something like 300 so why disregard them in analysis? Personally, I find dissecting and finding existential reasoning behind films to be a far more rewarding process.

If you were a critic on this show, I doubt anyone would want to hear you put down every film that is successful in the masses

What makes critics right? I'm already afforded a column to review movies where my voice is kept in tact. Yes, I have to greatly syphon the more academic criterion from my writing in said outlet but they're my words nonetheless. Being on a show like that doesn't appeal to me in the slightest as there is such little opportunity to really dig in and see what a movie really is. I realize the general population and I have differing viewpoints on what constitutes good cinema but I see meeting halfway as being disadvantageous when I already get so much more from the experience, sometimes even from bad efforts.

I agree with everyone about line he is being way to critical of the movie because its not a academy award movie such as There Will Be Blood which personally I didnt like.

Please don't use The Academy when referencing my tastes as theirs is usually awful. Also, why didn't you like TWBB?

I think The Dark Knight is better at Heath Ledgers portrayal is better than Daniel Day-Lewis portrayal of Daniel Plainview.

Why? I take it this is said after one viewing of each?

i didn't quite understand the concept behing the whole "cell phone sonar" thing, but still though it was a very cool concept (and totally justifiable, batman saved countless hostages thanks to that device and prevented the joker from detonating both ships. civil liberties my ass, lives were at stake. you need to take action.) and i liked that after it's use it was destroyed. but it's temporary use was highly warranted.

This is what I was getting at in the "philosophy" thread. Many of the motivations of key characters deal with life in a post-9/11 world with Gotham reflecting that as a fully encompassing, albeit abridged, society.

 

[Duality]

Originally posted by Line
This is what I was getting at in the "philosophy" thread. Many of the motivations of key characters deal with life in a post-9/11 world with Gotham reflecting that as a fully encompassing, albeit abridged, society.

ahh i wasn't aware of that. yes times and criteria haven changed since 9/11 as to what is acceptable action to counter/stop attacks. this is a reflection of that. interesting.

but formally speaking it's a terrible film. I can see how dumb fun is appealing on some levels but, as is the case here and with this year's Wanted, I don't see what was actually fun about that movie or what the purported response to it is.

dude......your comparing this film to wanted?? and calling it "dumb fun"? just out of curiousity do you think most film critics are just paid off when they give such rave reviews of films such as TDK or do you think it's their honest assesment of a quality piece of work? i would like the links or for you to post other critics assesments of this movie where they have a negative response to it such as yourself because i have yet to see any

 

[Line]

dude......your comparing this film to wanted?? and calling it "dumb fun"? just out of curiousity do you think most film critics are just paid off when they give such rave reviews of films such as TDK or do you think it's their honest assesment of a quality piece of work? i would like the links or for you to post other critics assesments of this movie where they have a negative response to it such as yourself because i have yet to see any

I was comparing 300 to Wanted. Try to keep up.

 

[Duality]

I was comparing 300 to Wanted. Try to keep up.

it appears otherwise from that post. try not to be such an egotistical ass.

 

[Turkish1530]

Maggie is definetly one of the ugliest broad's i've seen.

I told high_five I wouldn't even let that girl stand on my door mat, she's so ugly.

 

[Tonyk212000]

Duality got banned? Did i miss something in another thread?

 

[Line]

Duality got banned? Did i miss something in another thread?

No, it was in this thread. Calling an admin an "egotistical ass" won't win you points around here. It's only for 24 hours, he'll be back tomorrow.

 

[Tonyk212000]

No, it was in this thread. Calling an admin an "egotistical ass" won't win you points around here. It's only for 24 hours, he'll be back tomorrow.

He got off easy

About heath and day-lewis. I think both palyed their parts better but for how they performed and with the amount of time to learn the character Heath did a better job. Daniel Day-Lewis had a year to prepare for his role in There Will Be Blood and Heath had only a few months. The jokers character has many more tangibles than Plainview.

 

[Robcardu]

it appears otherwise from that post. try not to be such an egotistical ass.

oohh hes banned.

 

[Ryeland]

Line, as always you have posted some very solid arguments. I don't believe you think you are the be all and end all of critics as others have implied. You have seen a ton of movies that most of us haven't and may never. You can clearly justify why you rate movies the you do, so your reviews get my respect.

I will respectfully disagree and rate "The Dark Knight" a 9.5/10 and i will tell you why. As for all art, you don't appreciate cause someone else tells you to, you appreciate it because it speaks to you. This is how everyone should watch movies, critics are a good way to get a feel for a movie, but no one can tell you if it will speak to you or excite you. The Dark Knight spoke to me. I have always loved superheroes, especially DC, now don't get me wrong, i am no fanboy. I have always enjoyed movies, stories, video-games that remove the reader/viewer/player from the real world to tell a story about morality and complexity. The Dark Knight took me to Gotham, it made me believe the joker was a force to be reckoned with. It made me feel the weight of batman's choices, to give in and kill the joker and abandon his moral code and become no better than the joker. I understood the reasons that Harvey Dent went off the deep end. I felt understood the need to keep Dent's reputation solid to give gotham hope. Most importantly, i saw the very faint line between good and evil, order and chaos defined in two characters. I saw how they were the same and how they were different.

I may be reading too deep, but the movie spoke to me. For 2.5 hours, i wasn't in the theatre, i was in Gotham, i was right there watching good and evil duke it out. Maybe i don't have the most cinematically discerning palette, but the thematic elements, the music, the characters, the cinematography and the story. This movie drew me in, asked me questions and showed me some cool perspectives and lets face it some awesome action. I had a great time at that movie and it provoked thought in me.

Anyways thats just my two cents about a movie i saw, take it for what its worth.

 

[lifterdead]

@ the titty shot....

 

[Ryeland]

@ the titty shot....

i agree, kinda creepy.

 

[Line]

About heath and day-lewis. I think both palyed their parts better but for how they performed and with the amount of time to learn the character Heath did a better job. Daniel Day-Lewis had a year to prepare for his role in There Will Be Blood and Heath had only a few months. The jokers character has many more tangibles than Plainview.

I think there's a lot more going on with Plainview that went unnoticed. The narrative itself is very linearly focused but there are many thematic considerations under his character's surface that are hard to realize without careful examination. The film itself is decidedly about Plainview and centers around his being. In a way, it's a bit of a masked character study as opposed to other themes that generally associated with it such as modern alienation and faith versus ambition. At the heart of the tale, what moves the story forward, is the subtle personality shifts in his persona. There's far more to his core than you seem to be giving him credit for and, in reality, his actions are what drive all the people and events around him throughout the film. To say Plainview had less tangibles than The Joker is a bit of a misinterpretation of the character himself as he's on the screen in almost every scene for the duration of a three hour film in which his personality acts as the narrative vehicle.

Ledger, on the other hand, gave an incredible performance but his character had no true center and was obviously inspired by several classic American actors. Yes, DDL definitely was channeling John Huston a bit but I found Ledger's inspirations a bit more obvious and despite the "sociological" interests that the Joker demonstrated I didn't find the character all that deep or enlightening. That's not to say that Ledger didn't do a fantastic job with the source material or his direction but I find it's far too early to say whether or not his performance should be as heralded as it already is. I won't hesitate to say that his range was larger than that of Day-Lewis but I find Plainview to be a far more pertinent figure in American cinema and almost all of that is attributed to the performance itself.

Also, it shouldn't go unmentioned that the two have completely different approaches to acting. DDL is a highly publicized method actor meaning he never breaks character, even off the set or in between shoots. Did he have a year to prepare? Sure, but that's nothing compared to the distance he puts between himself and reality to put forth such a performance. I don't feel comparing said methods is effective in determining the overall magnitude of a performance though as I was just providing some food for thought.

Line, as always you have posted some very solid arguments. I don't believe you think you are the be all and end all of critics as others have implied.

I never said I was and it looks like most people are in disagreement with me about this film.

You have seen a ton of movies that most of us haven't and may never. You can clearly justify why you rate movies the you do, so your reviews get my respect.

Thank you.

I will respectfully disagree and rate "The Dark Knight" a 9.5/10 and i will tell you why. As for all art, you don't appreciate cause someone else tells you to, you appreciate it because it speaks to you. This is how everyone should watch movies, critics are a good way to get a feel for a movie, but no one can tell you if it will speak to you or excite you. The Dark Knight spoke to me.

That's a fine way of viewing things but I believe you're divulging a bit much into pure subjectivity. Art is creationism, yes, but it's also a very formatted and real process. There are no arbitrary decisions made during production of any work and very few true artists strive for sole reactionary critique. Our impulses tell us in immediacy what is enjoyable and good to us but I think it's a bit of an oversight to not want to intellectually examine something past direct stimulus. There's absolutely no shame in falling in love with a work for reasons you can't explain but I try to avoid such pitfalls in formal crits in order to better find what the picture is truly trying to say instead of merely how it felt as an experience.

I have always loved superheroes, especially DC, now don't get me wrong, i am no fanboy. I have always enjoyed movies, stories, video-games that remove the reader/viewer/player from the real world to tell a story about morality and complexity.

Part of my complaint is that despite having very well managed characters that focused and channeled moral issues it wasn't very complex and, often times, far too spelled out. The film played out well based on character motifs but it could have explored more challenging dilemmas without losing its audience or the spirit of its players. Again, this is not my full-out issue with the film but there were moments that were made much too obvious even to the common viewer.

The Dark Knight took me to Gotham, it made me believe the joker was a force to be reckoned with. It made me feel the weight of batman's choices, to give in and kill the joker and abandon his moral code and become no better than the joker.

But he didn't kill The Joker and his moral code was not abandoned. Vigilantism is a pertinent issue in the film and one that could lead many personalities to a moral crisis but Batman has already pushed aside said values in order to do what he feels is right. That in itself is at the very spirit of the character because essentially he is breaking the law just by acting in the name of good. So, in a nutshell, he's only expanding how far he is willing to cater to his own initial social construct, not necessarily abandoning it outright.

I understood the reasons that Harvey Dent went off the deep end. I felt understood the need to keep Dent's reputation solid to give gotham hope. Most importantly, i saw the very faint line between good and evil, order and chaos defined in two characters. I saw how they were the same and how they were different.

Well, yes, it's a very simple metaphor in terms of dealing with Dent and Two-Face. Eckhart's performance was very under discussed and I think he truly did shine here in the face of an already star-studded ordeal. Sadly, his character arc was horribly rushed and the potential to have a truly great villain was discarded rather quickly instead.

I may be reading too deep, but the movie spoke to me. For 2.5 hours, i wasn't in the theatre, i was in Gotham, i was right there watching good and evil duke it out. Maybe i don't have the most cinematically discerning palette, but the thematic elements, the music, the characters, the cinematography and the story. This movie drew me in, asked me questions and showed me some cool perspectives and lets face it some awesome action. I had a great time at that movie and it provoked thought in me.

I'm glad it provoked though in you because, truthfully, that's a very unheralded quality of cinema that few care to bother with. I'll certainly be the first to concede that it's a very well crafted film but now that you've seen what a movie can do to you intellectually, just wait until you discover some of the other stuff that is out there. I'm glad, in a way, that the film was able to bridge a gap and allow people to take on thought post-viewing but it's really just a lead in to what film can truly become and what can be accomplished intellectually through this medium.

Again, I'm glad you enjoyed it but I feel that sensationally it doesn't hold an escapist candle to the surrealist works of Lynch and, from a more grounded perspective, Nolan is far from reaching in and examining the human condition in the way Tarkovsky, Allen, Kar Wai, Herzog, Godard, Kurosawa, Bergman, Antonioni, Melville, Altman, Kubrick, von Trier, etc...do.

Anyways thats just my two cents about a movie i saw, take it for what its worth.

Of course, and it's worth quite a bit. I enjoy civilized discussion and some give-and-take far more than most realize.

 

[Fatality]

Duality is not going to be too pleased when he comes back tomorrow. However, if he's going to act like this to Admins. than he better get used to it. Learn from my mistakes as Kickazz23 Duality, don't piss off the wrong people, especially the ones that let you "live" in their server. Anyways, titty shot, not really happening for me. I feel it utterly disturbing that she's arroused by her kid sucking it.

 

[Tonyk212000]

I think there's a lot more going on with Plainview that went unnoticed. The narrative itself is very linearly focused but there are many thematic considerations under his character's surface that are hard to realize without careful examination. The film itself is decidedly about Plainview and centers around his being. In a way, it's a bit of a masked character study as opposed to other themes that generally associated with it such as modern alienation and faith versus ambition. At the heart of the tale, what moves the story forward, is the subtle personality shifts in his persona. There's far more to his core than you seem to be giving him credit for and, in reality, his actions are what drive all the people and events around him throughout the film. To say Plainview had less tangibles than The Joker is a bit of a misinterpretation of the character himself as he's on the screen in almost every scene for the duration of a three hour film in which his personality acts as the narrative vehicle.

Lets not forget that "DDL" is much older and has had a list of very reputable movies and characters. The only movie Ledger has done prior that is Academy Award worthy is BrokeBack Mountain :cardulikesmen: For Heaths age and experience (reputable film wise, not saying his other movies werent good) this was a great performance. If you do this experience wise this performance is spectacular.

 

[Line]

Lets not forget that "DDL" is much older and has had a list of very reputable movies and characters. The only movie Ledger has done prior that is Academy Award worthy is BrokeBack Mountain :cardulikesmen: For Heaths age and experience (reputable film wise, not saying his other movies werent good) this was a great performance. If you do this experience wise this performance is spectacular.

I was actually more impressed with him in Brokeback, and it's a better film.

 

[Hypocrisy86]

Line you scare me.

 

[Line]

Line you scare me.

Why?

 

[Hypocrisy86]

Why?

I guess its your overwhelming knowledge of films
and deep thought, and just sheer focus on things.

just reminds me of a serial killer.