The end of the world!!!!

[Skeptic]

why do we need religion for

peace and love and humblness and achieveing your goals without hrming others so you can have the ability to further help others

. all religion seems to do is breed hatred. The vatican is one of the most corrupt and money hungry places on earth.. and yet is a religious centrepoint.

 

[SerbMarko]

all religion seems to do is breed hatred. The vatican is one of the most corrupt and money hungry places on earth.. and yet is a religious centrepoint.

I couldn't agree with you more!!!

 

[high_five]

why do we need religion for . all religion seems to do is breed hatred. The vatican is one of the most corrupt and money hungry places on earth.. and yet is a religious centrepoint.

 

[BigBen]

why do we need religion for . all religion seems to do is breed hatred. The vatican is one of the most corrupt and money hungry places on earth.. and yet is a religious centrepoint.

I have said this in a previous post Jesus DID NOT BRING A RELIGION! Jesus brought a kingdom and a way of life that is suppose to be in our hearts. I believe in that way of life. Im not hear to defend the church or even to defend my own beliefs bc i have them, they are mine and no one elses, and i wasnt ever trying to make them anyone elses. Man classifies religion, God brought his kingdom. Their is a drastic differance. im assuming You have not done enough studying inside the faith u have only done studying of the faith, and made decisions about it based onothers understanding which u adopted as your own. When i speak of faith i speak of faith in God and in Jesus and in the Holy Spirit. JESUS BROUGHT A KINGDOM! Not a religion. I believe Jesus died on the cross and saved humanity form their sins YES of course i do! THATS MY BELIEF and u or no one else has the right to slander me because of it, i dont spit on you for choosing to not believe even though i dont think u have fully looked into the matter, but rather u made decisions baed on what u heard or what others peoples opinions were. Ill say this again bc mabye it will have greater meaning the second time around. Know your own mind, and live your own life. Know why u believe in what ever it is u choose to believe in or not to believe in BUT DONT let it be because someone told u let it be because u have been through the experience and lived through it and applied the faith or the rules or whatever is that your suppose to do in the spirit it is suppose to be applied in, and THEN u make the decision.

To anwsers your first question because why do we need religion i would ask u to look at society now, most without morals, and then look at those that TRULEY live by Jesus's message and I ask u why would we not want religion? Bc those that truley live by God want nothing more than to achieve trheir lif goals, to be happy and to help others when others need help and to give all glory to God. why becaus ethat how we believe it is suppose to be done. Why wouldnt you want people like that in this world? People that want to help others and not harm them, no negativity only support.

 

[pegasus]

This is a sticky question for sure. I'd suggest you watch the video "Freedom to Fascism." Do a search for it on google video, its there.

Interestingly, this past summer a lawyer out of Louisiana was taken to Federal court because he hadn't paid his income tax in like a decade. He was acquitted on all charges.

Part 1 (the rest are linked on the side)
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6KjBy_qp4Zc&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6KjBy_qp4Zc&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

But at the same time, it doesn't mean that they won't do anything. You should look into the case of Ed & Elaine Brown out of New Hampshire. They're a typical married couple who decided to stop paying an income tax for a decade, because they couldn't find a law and nobody could show them one. Anyways, they were convicted for tax evasion in a faulty trial that violated a ton of their rights, and instead of accepting, they armed themselves in their home and had like a 10 month stand off with Federal Marshals. (interesting though how it never made the news).

Anyways, they were brought down eventually by Marshals who illegally entrapped them, by posing as supporters of them.

thanks for letting me know. what about you self? would you consider not paying the IRS if you lived in the states?

 

[Ironslave]

thanks for letting me know. what about you self? would you consider not paying the IRS if you lived in the states?

Tough question. First, I'd need proof that I was required to pay it. It would be an issue that I'd have to carefully consider and speak to many people who actually can understand and show me the laws.

If I couldn't find anything? No, I wouldn't pay it. There'd be consequences, but I wouldn't pay an illegal slavery tax just to keep the bad guys from arresting me, if thats what it is.

 

[Arcane1129]

bigben you claim to be a very smart but your posts and claims about relationship with god are delusional.how is god flawless while the world he created is full shit.if he was flawless he would create a world that everybody was even,a world that everybody would have a chance for a decent
living.how does he let that bush guy praise his name and at the same time he is bombing the poor and the hopeless.take a look around do you see anything flawless?read the history about Byzantium where christianity started to grow as a religion.the kings forced cristianity while they killed and tortured
thousands and thousands of people who where against their beliefs.What happened to the so called god of compassion.you may have read the bible but i have read history and i now that christians committed some of the worst atrocities in the history of mankind.

According to the Bible, God gave people a free will. It was their choice to sin, which brought about (and still causes) many of the atrocities of the world. You're simply ignorant regarding the Bible spouting off stuff like that.
----------

Sure, many people in certain religions have committed horrible acts against other groups. That doesn't mean the religion promoted it- it's the act of radicals.

Also, if God is real, you have to consider that only one religion can be true because otherwise a number of important things would contradict each other. Catholicism and Islam and a few others appear obvious to me as a means of controlling masses, though certain others, such as fundamental Baptist, appear to make more sense. So when discussing the topic of religion with me, don't criticize either of those 2 as a means of putting down my beliefs- I'm think they're bs too.

I fully understand arguments both for and against religion, but I haven't seen anything substantial enough for me to 100% go with one side over the other. I don't see the point in choosing one and going on a die-hard assault against the other; it just leads to trouble and closed mindedness.

 

[Skeptic]

I have said this in a previous post Jesus DID NOT BRING A RELIGION! Jesus brought a kingdom and a way of life that is suppose to be in our hearts. I believe in that way of life. Im not hear to defend the church or even to defend my own beliefs bc i have them, they are mine and no one elses, and i wasnt ever trying to make them anyone elses. Man classifies religion, God brought his kingdom. Their is a drastic differance. im assuming You have not done enough studying inside the faith u have only done studying of the faith, and made decisions about it based onothers understanding which u adopted as your own. When i speak of faith i speak of faith in God and in Jesus and in the Holy Spirit. JESUS BROUGHT A KINGDOM! Not a religion. I believe Jesus died on the cross and saved humanity form their sins YES of course i do! THATS MY BELIEF and u or no one else has the right to slander me because of it, i dont spit on you for choosing to not believe even though i dont think u have fully looked into the matter, but rather u made decisions baed on what u heard or what others peoples opinions were. Ill say this again bc mabye it will have greater meaning the second time around. Know your own mind, and live your own life. Know why u believe in what ever it is u choose to believe in or not to believe in BUT DONT let it be because someone told u let it be because u have been through the experience and lived through it and applied the faith or the rules or whatever is that your suppose to do in the spirit it is suppose to be applied in, and THEN u make the decision.

To anwsers your first question because why do we need religion i would ask u to look at society now, most without morals, and then look at those that TRULEY live by Jesus's message and I ask u why would we not want religion? Bc those that truley live by God want nothing more than to achieve trheir lif goals, to be happy and to help others when others need help and to give all glory to God. why becaus ethat how we believe it is suppose to be done. Why wouldnt you want people like that in this world? People that want to help others and not harm them, no negativity only support.

I never said anythign about jesus. I dunno why you keep bringing him up.

I never slandered you.

You dont think i have fully looked into the matter because you dont see how someone could not follow what you believe.... obviously.

I look at christianity, and see heartless zombies. I see bible bashers. I see people who basically hate everybody else because they dont believe the word of god. RARELY is there anyone helping others for no personal gain.

No study in the faith? I went to christian schools for 12 years I lived around christianity for most of my life.


ARCANE You only say we are ignorant because we differ in opinion from you in regards to the bibles meaning.

 

[Arcane1129]

I look at christianity, and see heartless zombies. I see bible bashers. I see people who basically hate everybody else because they dont believe the word of god. RARELY is there anyone helping others for no personal gain.

I don't hate everyone else and I don't help others just for personal gain I know MANY more people that feel the same way. Way to generalize.

ARCANE You only say we are ignorant because we differ in opinion from you in regards to the bibles meaning.

I only called him ignorant for talking about how God acts when he has clearly never read the Bible much at all, or has at least completely failed to understand it. Also, I don't look down on others for not believing in the Bible or having a different opinion of its meaning.

 

[Skeptic]

ARCANE

According to the Bible, God gave people a free will. It was their choice to sin, which brought about (and still causes) many of the atrocities of the world. You're simply ignorant regarding the Bible spouting off stuff like that.

You do look down on non believers... just like every other devout christian.

 

[Mygeeto]

lol skeptic owns

 

[Skeptic]

 

[Ironslave]

First, Ben, respect for your faith bro. Many religions are used as a crutch for immoral actions ("god told me I'll go to Paradise if I shoot those kids in my class!!"), but you're an example of what a good person is, and people should strive to emulate that (regardless if they're religious or not).

Now, couple comments/questions

When i speak of faith i speak of faith in God and in Jesus and in the Holy Spirit. JESUS BROUGHT A KINGDOM! Not a religion. I believe Jesus died on the cross and saved humanity form their sins YES of course i do!

Where is this kingdom? What kind of kingdom did he bring? I haven't seen it, and I know nobody else has either. If there is a god looking over us, he has absolutely no role in the things that occur on earth. People live their lives, and people make their decisions, it may be influenced by their belief that there is a god and they need to serve him, but a god does not directly cause us to do certain actions, or cause events to happen.

How did he save humanity from their sins? According to what would qualify as a sin by Christian beliefs, EVERYBODY sins all the time. Besides the "common" ones, premarital sex, 'ing, lying, cursing, theres a bunch of things we do that can qualify as a "sin".

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZZHavwyKNXM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZZHavwyKNXM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

To anwsers your first question because why do we need religion i would ask u to look at society now, most without morals, and then look at those that TRULEY live by Jesus's message and I ask u why would we not want religion? Bc those that truley live by God want nothing more than to achieve trheir lif goals, to be happy and to help others when others need help and to give all glory to God. why becaus ethat how we believe it is suppose to be done. Why wouldnt you want people like that in this world? People that want to help others and not harm them, no negativity only support.

I don't consider myself religious, yet I do countless things to help people and be a good person. People don't need religion to do that. If people who are like you and do live their life in this message, yes, the world will be a better place (regardless if they live this way for religious reasons or just to help others out because they want to). But, problem is, so few people actually do live like this, and probably more people use religion as a crutch.

Many of the things quoted as being said from Jesus are impossible lies, even the most devout Christian could not refute this.

And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14 NAB)

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. (John 15:7 NAB)

It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you. (John 15:16 NAB)

So if I ask Jesus to help me marry the girl of my dreams and get into schools I apply to, it will happen?

There are tons more things, I'm not going to list them all, but I got them from the website www.evilbible.com , which goes through them.

 

[Arcane1129]

ARCANE

You do look down on non believers... just like every other devout christian.

Way to generalize millions of people and lie about me. I've just lost a great deal of respect for you because of that. Disagreeing with me is fine over a topic, but saying I do something I don't and criticizing an entire group of people over something that simply isn't true doesn't fly with me.

 

[Skeptic]

Way to generalize millions of people and lie about me. I've just lost a great deal of respect for you because of that. Disagreeing with me is fine over a topic, but saying I do something I don't and criticizing an entire group of people over something that simply isn't true doesn't fly with me.

Im sorry if i offended you mate... but thats the way you come across.

 

[Mygeeto]

Im sorry if i offended you mate... but thats the way you come across.

generally when someone comes across a certain way, its because they want to come across a certain way.

 

[BigBen]

I never said anythign about jesus. I dunno why you keep bringing him up.

I never slandered you.

You dont think i have fully looked into the matter because you dont see how someone could not follow what you believe.... obviously.

I look at christianity, and see heartless zombies. I see bible bashers. I see people who basically hate everybody else because they dont believe the word of god. RARELY is there anyone helping others for no personal gain.

No study in the faith? I went to christian schools for 12 years I lived around christianity for most of my life.


ARCANE You only say we are ignorant because we differ in opinion from you in regards to the bibles meaning.

I keep brining Jesus up bc He is the most important part of our faith if Jesus didnt happen thier is no kingdom.

Christianity couldnt be anything further from what u described, at least not the Christianity i practice. People should ALWAYS help others for no personal gain try it sometime i do it often, its a fantastic life experience.

DOnt take this as an insult but just bc u went to Christian school for 12 years doesnt mean you took the journey you were suppose to in search for God. That should of given u a back bone to help u with your journey. God will reveal himself to you if you search for him.

FOr ironslave bc im short on time i have to go to work. To the most important parts of your post.

Jesus kingdom is in the hearts of the truley faithful and in their actions everyday. Thats the kingdom im speaking. About your prayer, yes if u prayed with total faith, God would hep you with that mabye not today mabye not tomorrow but u would recieve what u prayed for, seriously, as long as u acted on opprtunity when it arose. I understand your problems with religion but i think another problem is that u havent been around someone who really practices the faith or has an understanding for God's love, or mabye u have and Christianity was not for u for some reason. Thats your decision, but i still think your giving ME a bad wrap by generalizing my faith bc of what other people do. I dont see Christianity in the same flawed way i think u guys do. i see Jesus's message of peace and love, and living the joyous blessed life God gave me.


Jesus saved humanity form our sins bc he was a sinless person, and was crucified. Jesus is God the son and died for us. Bc he was without sin and inncent and God, thats how God chose to make his final everlasting covenant with man. That if man puts their faith in God they will be saved. I think what you were lookin of ris why can Jesus daveus from our sins? Its because he was completely good, sinless rather and he is God, that their was an everlasting abundance of good to save us from the evils of sin.

I dont think i will ever be able to reason u into believeing bc thats not how faith in anything happens, if your reasoned into it then its not faith, it is knowing. I can keep clarifying misconseptions you may have.


God Bless
BEn

 

[Ironslave]

Jesus kingdom is in the hearts of the truley faithful and in their actions everyday. Thats the kingdom im speaking.

So it's an imaginary kingdom that isn't real?

About your prayer, yes if u prayed with total faith, God would hep you with that mabye not today mabye not tomorrow but u would recieve what u prayed for, seriously, as long as u acted on opprtunity when it arose.

How would god help me? I thought people say that "god grants us free will"? I have already applied to some schools, if I prey to god will he help me get in?
Jesus' words say that if you prey for it, it WILL happen bro.

I understand your problems with religion but i think another problem is that u havent been around someone who really practices the faith or has an understanding for God's love, or mabye u have and Christianity was not for u for some reason.

I have been, I went to a strict catholic high school run by the Brothers of the Holy Cross who met in a church every morning to prey. We had mass every Sunday, and some of the teachers were great men who were devout Christians.

Thats your decision, but i still think your giving ME a bad wrap by generalizing my faith bc of what other people do. I dont see Christianity in the same flawed way i think u guys do. i see Jesus's message of peace and love, and living the joyous blessed life God gave me.

Read the intro to my last post again dude, I never once gave you a bad wrap or generalized you, I went out of my way to say the opposite.

Jesus saved humanity form our sins bc he was a sinless person, and was crucified. Jesus is God the son and died for us. Bc he was without sin and inncent and God, thats how God chose to make his final everlasting covenant with man. That if man puts their faith in God they will be saved. I think what you were lookin of ris why can Jesus daveus from our sins? Its because he was completely good, sinless rather and he is God, that their was an everlasting abundance of good to save us from the evils of sin.

First, how was Jesus the son of God? Supposedly Mary was this pure virgin, did God just point to her stomach and say "poof, you are not pregnant!" Or, did her and Joseph go back to the manger one night after a few too many glasses of holy wine?

Jesus lied, lying is a sin, thus, Jesus was a sinner. Here are things he said to his followers

Jesus implies that he will return to earth during the lifetime of John. (John 21:22)

Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 & 24:34

Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Matthew 23:36 NAB)

Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Is God himself sinless? Because some of the things that happen in the world, which according to Christians must be the result of acts from god are horrendous.

Isn't one of God's 10 commandments "Thou shalt not kill", yet, why does God order that all Jabesh-gilead people be murdered, except for virgin women, who are to be sold as sex slaves and raped?

"So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan."



"The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."



"Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes." (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

Another one, isn't adultery considered a horrible sin? Every Christian would agree to this. Why does God say this to David? When David begs forgiveness, God says "oh it's okay.... but I'm gonna kill your kid to punish you"

"Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives (plural) while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'"
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." (The child dies seven days later.) 2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB

I dont think i will ever be able to reason u into believeing bc thats not how faith in anything happens, if your reasoned into it then its not faith, it is knowing. I can keep clarifying misconseptions you may have.

Everything I believe requires reasoning, if I believe something based on what I am conditioned to (in this case, religion, there's no doubt that people are conditioned into believing things a certain way, see the video of people praying to President Bush that Tech posted) then it is ignorance.

I personally don't know what to believe, I consider myself a skepticist more than anything. But Ben, you haven't cleared up any misconceptions bro, you've just stated a few.

 

[SerbMarko]

 

[high_five]

Ironslave>Bible


Ironslave