Biden: Paying higher taxes is "patriotic" for wealthy

[Clint]

Karl Marx knows whats up.

 

[Flex]

They should view it as a privilege that the government steals their money from them and puts it to something they have no idea what? . You are seriously expressing communist views. I'm not calling you a communist directly, because I know you'll take it as an insult and deny it... but literally, you are advocating communism.

With all do respect, he believes the government should steal all of our guns, he's pro-Iraq war, he's for stealing from the rich and delevering it to the middle class, and he believes drugs should be illegal.

Sounds somewhat like communism to me.

 

[Ironslave]

^

I agree, it's just that I have a reputation of insulting people, so I didn't want to say it directly. But yeah, Bulkboy certainly advocates a lot of communist ideas....

 

[Duality]

With all do respect, he believes the government should steal all of our guns, he's pro-Iraq war, he's for stealing from the rich and delevering it to the middle class, and he believes drugs should be illegal.

Sounds somewhat like communism to me.

huh? did i miss something? is this a radical view to you? i've seen the ron paul clip where he argues for the legalization of drugs, but that is not in his agenda nor is it anywhere realistic to think something like that would be beneficial for society. sure you take money from gangs and terrorist groups, but you unleash an even greater evil in the process. sure anyone who REALLY wants to find some heroin is gonna get it, but when you make it readily available to the public you are opening a huge pandora's box.

 

[Ironslave]

huh? did i miss something? is this a radical view to you? i've seen the ron paul clip where he argues for the legalization of drugs, but that is not in his agenda nor is it anywhere realistic to think something like that would be beneficial for society. sure you take money from gangs and terrorist groups, but you unleash an even greater evil in the process. sure anyone who REALLY wants to find some heroin is gonna get it, but when you make it readily available to the public you are opening a huge pandora's box.

Right.. because I'm sure people will all of a sudden jump on it. How would basically crippling all gangs, terrorist groups, and saving taxpayers billions of dollars not be beneficial for society?

Anyway, weren't you the one advocating population control? Why not legalize opiates so people can OD on them?

 

[Duality]

Right.. because I'm sure people will all of a sudden jump on it. How would basically crippling all gangs, terrorist groups, and saving taxpayers billions of dollars not be beneficial for society?

Anyway, weren't you the one advocating population control? Why not legalize opiates so people can OD on them?

ok.....you have to realize being the intelligent person that you are (and i am not saying this sarcastically i do consider you intelligent) that as much as you think bulkboy is radical or extereme in his views.... you are exactly the same...but in the other direction. really you cannot take any view(s) from any party and implement them to the extreme and expect them to work all the time. this is what your line of thought tends to be.....ALL THE TIME! you leave NO room for grey area, ever. and this line of thought you use as a conservative is no different than someone like Obama with his exteremly liberal views. each party has something unique to offer in terms of their policy and the best policies are the ones that can take a little from both and come up with something fair. this is what i believe this tax plan is doing.

Right now our economy is sorely in need of a boost. and since the MAJORITY of america's population would benefit from this, it would almost undoubtledly stimulate purchases and the economy as a whole. you find this to be unfair to the upper class... and you're right. they should be held to the same standards as their less fortunate counterparts in an ideal world (and stop BSing, fortune aka luck plays a LARGE roll of it A LOT of the time, you make it out to sound like everyone is Andrew Carniegie and built their wealth through hard work, not true), but sometimes life isn't fair. it's not fair that the poorer sector of our society has to suffer from our current policies and see their already modest income raped through the inflation of the dollar and gas prices, and it's not fair that someone earning $300,000 a year is going to have to pay more taxes, but that is the best decision for this country right now to at least try to get it back on the right direction economically speaking.

answer me this, do you think a flat tax (something IMO that would be a great idea) is communist or punishing those that earn more? why is everyone being taxed say 15% unfair (i'm assuming you're going to call it unfair based on your posts in this thread).

 

[BigBen]

I have actually had the exprience of talking with a millionaire that goes to the health club i work at when im not in school. He said and i quote " Why do i give a shit if i have to pay 50000 dollars in taxes, and you pay 5000. I have the money to do it."

Same note, it wont matter who is in office, ANY candidate can say what they want taxes will be raised the government s loaning out outrageous amounts of money to the banks to keep them from going under, and we will pay for it. I think the number was 85 billion for one large bank.

Obama will raise taxes, he has no choice, so will McCain. Both gentlemen want to increase spending and both are dealing with the same defecate, use your head, defecate, spending more than we have, we have to credit the money(borrow it) from another country like we have been doing, or we raise taxes. Which will happen too.

We need to decrase Government spending and increase the spending of the people. Taxes need to go down so spending hopefull goes up, which it may not b/c the prices will sill be high. Government spending needs to go down aswell.

 

[Ironslave]

ok.....you have to realize being the intelligent person that you are (and i am not saying this sarcastically i do consider you intelligent) that as much as you think bulkboy is radical or extereme in his views.... you are exactly the same...but in the other direction. really you cannot take any view(s) from any party and implement them to the extreme and expect them to work all the time. this is what your line of thought tends to be.....ALL THE TIME! you leave NO room for grey area, ever. and this line of thought you use as a conservative is no different than someone like Obama with his exteremly liberal views. each party has something unique to offer in terms of their policy and the best policies are the ones that can take a little from both and come up with something fair. this is what i believe this tax plan is doing.

I was moreso playing Devil's advocate on the drug laws... but regardless, you realize though that Heroin used to actually be legal, right? Bayer used to sell it. You could even buy Morphine at Sears.

.In the United States, regular users of opiates at the end of the century numbered somewhere between 200,000 and 1 million, out of a population of 76 million, leading to a general recognition that excessive opiate use was peculiarly American. The majority of these users were white, middle- or upper-class women, with an average age of forty. For them, opiates served the same function that alcohol, Valium, and other tranquilizers serve for housewives today. Although opium use was not socially respectable, it received less opprobrium than the use of alcohol, which was especially frowned upon for women... ...Indeed, both opium and morphine were widely recommended cures for alcoholism...

So, bases on the only really relevant historical example, just because it is legal doesn't mean that its use will just skyrocket.

(and stop BSing, fortune aka luck plays a LARGE roll of it A LOT of the time, you make it out to sound like everyone is Andrew Carniegie and built their wealth through hard work, not true), but sometimes life isn't fair.

Show me where I ever even hinted at such a thing...

Right now our economy is sorely in need of a boost. and since the MAJORITY of america's population would benefit from this, it would almost undoubtledly stimulate purchases and the economy as a whole. you find this to be unfair to the upper class... and you're right. they should be held to the same standards as their less fortunate counterparts in an ideal world it's not fair that the poorer sector of our society has to suffer from our current policies and see their already modest income raped through the inflation of the dollar and gas prices, and it's not fair that someone earning $300,000 a year is going to have to pay more taxes, but that is the best decision for this country right now to at least try to get it back on the right direction economically speaking.

Oh? So your solution is to give more power and control to those people responsible for inflation and loss of purchasing power of the dollar?

Anyways, you're wrong.

http://mises.org/story/3087

 

[Flex]

that as much as you think bulkboy is radical or extereme in his views.... you are exactly the same...but in the other direction.

Nobody here ever said Bulkboy's views are "extreme" or "radical." In fact, a good majority of this country expect the government to do too much. Many people want bigger government, not realizing they'd be better off with less government.

As for the legalization of drugs discussion, I think you should just do a search. It's been discussed several times on this forum.

 

[Duality]

Nobody here ever said Bulkboy's views are "extreme" or "radical." In fact, a good majority of this country expect the government to do too much. Many people want bigger government, not realizing they'd be better off with less government.

As for the legalization of drugs discussion, I think you should just do a search. It's been discussed several times on this forum.

no i know and i don't mean to take the thread off topic with the legality of drugs issue. but in your previous post you clearly are attempting to delegitamize bulkboy by listing his beliefs in a manor that is intended to make his views seem ludicrous. no? (don't say no, you know it's true) since communism is a radical form of governement, and you are basically calling bulkboy a communist, it's easy to make the connection and see that you are calling bulkboy a radical or at the very least his views. c'mon.

 

[Duality]

Originally posted by Ironslave
So, bases on the only really relevant historical example, just because it is legal doesn't mean that its use will just skyrocket.

pure speculation. i'm not saying usage will "skyrocket", but it almost undoubtedly will go up. i understand this too is speculation, but you can't site one source and have that be the be all end all in your assumption (key word: assumption) that use won't rise.

Show me where I ever even hinted at such a thing...

seriously....please. all your posts use diction that make it very apparent that you think the government would be taking "hard earned money" or money that they earned through their labors and not some luck. seriously, if you don't think you're coming off this way then change your tone when discussing how this will be a "punishment".

Oh? So your solution is to give more power and control to those people responsible for inflation and loss of purchasing power of the dollar?

what??? are you saying the middle class is responsible for these things? because that is what it sounds like.

Anyways, you're wrong.

your inability to understand other peoples' take on the matter is astounding.

 

[Braaq]

pure speculation. i'm not saying usage will "skyrocket", but it almost undoubtedly will go up. i understand this too is speculation, but you can't site one source and have that be the be all end all in your assumption (key word: assumption) that use won't rise.

I am supposed to be a free human being, so I should be able to do whatever it is I want to myself. If I want to take drugs I should be able to without government telling me that I can't. If I don't want to take drugs because of whatever reasons then I don't have to, but it should be my choice. I think making things illegal glorifies it and just makes the problem worse. We didn't learn our lesson from prohibition, and we are losing again with drugs.

 

[Flex]

no i know and i don't mean to take the thread off topic with the legality of drugs issue. but in your previous post you clearly are attempting to delegitamize bulkboy by listing his beliefs in a manor that is intended to make his views seem ludicrous. no? (don't say no, you know it's true).

No.

Why would I be using that particular view to make Bulkboy sound ludacris when at least 75% of this country would agree with the war on drugs? It's just another view that adds on to a similarity of communism.

All this "radicalizing," "delegitamizing," "ludicrousy," etc. that you're claiming I used against Bulkboy is bullshit. All I said was his views look awfully similar to socialism on the brink of communism.

 

[Duality]

Originally posted by Braaq
I am supposed to be a free human being, so I should be able to do whatever it is I want to myself. If I want to take drugs I should be able to without government telling me that I can't.

this is what i see as a prime example of the conservative views many have on this site taken to an extreme. so according to this logic, we should have suicide booths available to the public then right? i mean, there not hurting anyone else and it's their body. right? and just because it's readily available to the public doesn't mean the rate of suicide will increase. right? now don't get me wrong this line of thought is applicable....but to a certain extent. and you my friend along with many others take it way too far.

i'm sure someone will ask me "who are you to decide when it's taken too far?" and that's a valid point, that's why we have a congress elected by the people to inact these laws. though the system we have is flawed (and what system isn't) that sometimes passes these laws, it is the best we can do to provide fair legislature that is conducsive to a civil society.

I think making things illegal glorifies it and just makes the problem worse.

again by this logic we should have no drinking age. because quite honestly the only reason high school kids do it is because it's illegal. not an excuse to legalize something.

 

[Duality]

No.

Why would I be using that particular view to make Bulkboy sound ludacris when at least 75% of this country would agree with the war on drugs? It's just another view that adds on to a similarity of communism.

All this "radicalizing," "delegitamizing," "ludicrousy," etc. that you're claiming I used against Bulkboy is bullshit. All I said was his views look awfully similar to socialism on the brink of communism.

fair enough sorry for the accusation. i just saw it differently by your posts.

 

[tim290280]

Have to say I see both sides to be correct in some ways. We have recently had this same argument in Australia over tax thresholds for families.

"Well off" people can afford a higher level of tax, but not relative to their income. So %tax rates are great as long as incremental levels are adjusted to standard distributions of pay/income rates.

"Lower income" people are never really taxed at the same rate as their richer counterparts. The more wealthy you become the more likely you are to be paying large portions of direct and indirect taxes as part of your income/investment dealings. You also have to be carefull as the wealthy also have more options about how and where they pay taxes due to their mobility and accountants. If you start taxing wealthy people for being wealthy then (as Pegasus already noted) you are not only discouraging people from contributing to the wealth of a country but you also will see them move to countries with better conditions for them.

 

[Duality]

Have to say I see both sides to be correct in some ways. We have recently had this same argument in Australia over tax thresholds for families.

"Well off" people can afford a higher level of tax, but not relative to their income. So %tax rates are great as long as incremental levels are adjusted to standard distributions of pay/income rates.

"Lower income" people are never really taxed at the same rate as their richer counterparts. The more wealthy you become the more likely you are to be paying large portions of direct and indirect taxes as part of your income/investment dealings. You also have to be carefull as the wealthy also have more options about how and where they pay taxes due to their mobility and accountants. If you start taxing wealthy people for being wealthy then (as Pegasus already noted) you are not only discouraging people from contributing to the wealth of a country but you also will see them move to countries with better conditions for them.

please take note all. this is a very fair post that views the situation from an unbiased standpoint. meaning, i don't know what party Tim affiliates himself with, but at least he can see what the other side is saying and that it is not neccesarily wrong just because it's not in line with his party views. some people on here epically lack this ability.

 

[Bulkboy]

ok.....you have to realize being the intelligent person that you are (and i am not saying this sarcastically i do consider you intelligent) that as much as you think bulkboy is radical or extereme in his views.... you are exactly the same...but in the other direction. really you cannot take any view(s) from any party and implement them to the extreme and expect them to work all the time. this is what your line of thought tends to be.....ALL THE TIME! you leave NO room for grey area, ever. and this line of thought you use as a conservative is no different than someone like Obama with his exteremly liberal views. each party has something unique to offer in terms of their policy and the best policies are the ones that can take a little from both and come up with something fair. this is what i believe this tax plan is doing.

Right now our economy is sorely in need of a boost. and since the MAJORITY of america's population would benefit from this, it would almost undoubtledly stimulate purchases and the economy as a whole. you find this to be unfair to the upper class... and you're right. they should be held to the same standards as their less fortunate counterparts in an ideal world (and stop BSing, fortune aka luck plays a LARGE roll of it A LOT of the time, you make it out to sound like everyone is Andrew Carniegie and built their wealth through hard work, not true), but sometimes life isn't fair. it's not fair that the poorer sector of our society has to suffer from our current policies and see their already modest income raped through the inflation of the dollar and gas prices, and it's not fair that someone earning $300,000 a year is going to have to pay more taxes, but that is the best decision for this country right now to at least try to get it back on the right direction economically speaking.

answer me this, do you think a flat tax (something IMO that would be a great idea) is communist or punishing those that earn more? why is everyone being taxed say 15% unfair (i'm assuming you're going to call it unfair based on your posts in this thread).

awesome post bro! could not agree more

im at work right now and cant write a long reply, but i wanna say to those here calling me a communist, that ure inability to see things in a broader perspective is astounding. its not black and white, its not either communism or complete capitalism, there is a middle path, which i prefer rather than ur free market utopia(which btw will never happend) but keep labeing me a commie, keep making a fool out of yourselves, its fine by me.

and IS, i cant believe u accuse duality of being the troublemaker here, in every debate u are the one resorting to cheap shots, and u are the one who are unable to see other peoples opinions.

 

[Ironslave]

seriously....please. all your posts use diction that make it very apparent that you think the government would be taking "hard earned money" or money that they earned through their labors and not some luck. seriously, if you don't think you're coming off this way then change your tone when discussing how this will be a "punishment".

No they don't. This is a complete strawman. "fruits of labor" is an expression, even if someone earned their wealth through winning the lottery, it doesn't matter. It's still punishment that they are having their wealth stolen simply for having wealth. Not once did I indicate anything such as all wealthy people worked their ass off. Many were born, or lucked into it, but so what, that's liberty.

what??? are you saying the middle class is responsible for these things? because that is what it sounds like.

Again, you're completely missing the point. Where on earth did I ever blame the middle class? I was pointing out the absurdity of giving more power to the government, in hopes that they will fix the problem, when they are the ones that caused it!

your inability to understand other peoples' take on the matter is astounding.

I understand your position, but it's not informed. I'm doubting that you even clicked on the link, so again, I will post it. It's an in depth analysis from a well known economist.

http://mises.org/story/3087

 

[Ironslave]

awesome post bro! could not agree more

im at work right now and cant write a long reply, but i wanna say to those here calling me a communist, that ure inability to see things in a broader perspective is astounding. its not black and white, its not either communism or complete capitalism, there is a middle path, which i prefer rather than ur free market utopia(which btw will never happend) but keep labeing me a commie, keep making a fool out of yourselves, its fine by me.

and IS, i cant believe u accuse duality of being the troublemaker here, in every debate u are the one resorting to cheap shots, and u are the one who are unable to see other peoples opinions.

When once here did I take a cheap shot at you? Not once, read every post again, I even mentioned that I went out of my way to avoid doing so. Flex called you a communist, and I mentioned that you had a lot of communist beliefs (it's a fact, sorry, take it as an insult or whatever, but it's the truth.)

Those advocating free market are making a fool of themselves? . ALL of these problems are caused by government and central bank interference, and the incentives their policies provide to businesses and people.

I know it will probably never happen, so what? That's like saying it's pointless to be against wars because there will never be a world without some kind of war.