Greatest Athlete of the 20th Century Elimination Thread

[Braaq]

Jim Brown 25
Eddie Merckx 25
Muhammad Ali 25
Jesse Owens 25
Babe Ruth 20
Jim Thorpe 25
Wayne Gretzky 25
Tiger Woods 25
Michael Jordan 25
Lance Armstrong 25
Bo Jackson 22
Michael Johnson 21
Pele 25

-2 Babe Ruth

 

[Duality]

Jim Brown 25
Eddie Merckx 25
Muhammad Ali 25
Jesse Owens 25
Babe Ruth 18
Jim Thorpe 25
Wayne Gretzky 25
Tiger Woods 25
Michael Jordan 25
Lance Armstrong 25
Bo Jackson 22
Michael Johnson 21
Pele 25

-2 michael johnson



-2 duality for busting on golf. when you shoot a 72, or even a 90, then you can say its easy

lol i didn't say it was easy, just that it doesn't require much athletic ability. do you think the athletic ability of Phil mickelson is comparable to say Ladanian Tomlinson? c'mon....

 

[lifterdead]

Jim Brown 25
Eddie Merckx 25
Muhammad Ali 25
Jesse Owens 25
Babe Ruth 20
Jim Thorpe 25
Wayne Gretzky 25
Tiger Woods 25
Michael Jordan 25
Lance Armstrong 23
Bo Jackson 22
Michael Johnson 21
Pele 25

-2 Lance

 

[Duality]

Jim Brown 25
Eddie Merckx 25
Muhammad Ali 25
Jesse Owens 25
Babe Ruth 18
Jim Thorpe 25
Wayne Gretzky 25
Tiger Woods 25
Michael Jordan 25
Lance Armstrong 23
Bo Jackson 22
Michael Johnson 21
Pele 25

-2 Ruth

 

[Line]

but one thing i noticed, you never touched on the matter of golf deserving to be a sport.....did you agree with me or just not address it?

I just neglected talking about it as most of your concerns centered around baseball. Golf probably the least of physically demanding of major sports if we're favoring the whole intensity angle. However, from the standpoint of athletic precision and strong neurological mapping patterns I put it above all others. Again, the crux here is that Phil Mickelson, John Daily, and the lot are all fantastic golfers but will never be mentioned amongst the world's greatest athletes. Woods is the exception to the rule based on the overall impact he's had on his sport, which is easily larger than that of any modern athlete.

It's hard to compare it to football or basketball, your fortes, due to a standardized field of play. However, it would be the equivalent of a baseball player coming around that was so dominate that all fences were moved back 50 feet and the pitcher was allowed to throw from 5 feet closer. On top of that, everyone in the league would then be forced to get better to match the new, previously unthinkable level at which he's playing at on a consistent basis. Woods, like Jordan, made everyone around him better, but in a completely different way. While Jordan's teammates fed off of his gifts and became better players in and of themselves, Woods was so dominate that every other golfer needed to improve so not to get embarrassed.

Jim Brown 25
Eddie Merckx 25
Muhammad Ali 25
Jesse Owens 25
Babe Ruth 19
Jim Thorpe 25
Wayne Gretzky 25
Tiger Woods 25
Michael Jordan 25
Lance Armstrong 23
Bo Jackson 22
Michael Johnson 20
Pele 25

+1 Ruth
-1 Johnson

 

[Ironslave]

Muhammad Ali 25

Who was he??

http://www.musclemecca.com/member.php?u=3170

 

[Braaq]

Jim Brown 25
Eddie Merckx 23
Muhammad Ali 25
Jesse Owens 25
Babe Ruth 19
Jim Thorpe 25
Wayne Gretzky 25
Tiger Woods 25
Michael Jordan 25
Lance Armstrong 23
Bo Jackson 22
Michael Johnson 20
Pele 25

-2 Eddie Merckx

 

[lifterdead]

Jim Brown 25
Eddie Merckx 23
Muhammad Ali 25
Jesse Owens 24
Babe Ruth 19
Jim Thorpe 25
Wayne Gretzky 25
Tiger Woods 25
Michael Jordan 25
Lance Armstrong 23
Bo Jackson 22
Michael Johnson 20
Pele 24

-1 Pele
-1 Jesse Owens

 

[Ironslave]

Jim Brown 25
Eddie Merckx 24
Muhammad Ali 25
Jesse Owens 24
Babe Ruth 19
Jim Thorpe 25
Wayne Gretzky 25
Tiger Woods 25
Michael Jordan 25
Lance Armstrong 22
Bo Jackson 22
Michael Johnson 20
Pele 24

+1 Eddie Merckx
-1 Lance Armstrong

 

[Duality]

I just neglected talking about it as most of your concerns centered around baseball. Golf probably the least of physically demanding of major sports if we're favoring the whole intensity angle. However, from the standpoint of athletic precision and strong neurological mapping patterns I put it above all others. Again, the crux here is that Phil Mickelson, John Daily, and the lot are all fantastic golfers but will never be mentioned amongst the world's greatest athletes. Woods is the exception to the rule based on the overall impact he's had on his sport, which is easily larger than that of any modern athlete.

It's hard to compare it to football or basketball, your fortes, due to a standardized field of play. However, it would be the equivalent of a baseball player coming around that was so dominate that all fences were moved back 50 feet and the pitcher was allowed to throw from 5 feet closer. On top of that, everyone in the league would then be forced to get better to match the new, previously unthinkable level at which he's playing at on a consistent basis. Woods, like Jordan, made everyone around him better, but in a completely different way. While Jordan's teammates fed off of his gifts and became better players in and of themselves, Woods was so dominate that every other golfer needed to improve so not to get embarrassed.

again true. but your comparing the sport and its athletes only within the confines of the game itself (the PGA) and not against other sports (you only use other sports as examples), where it falls very short in the quality of its athletes as compared to the other sports leagues.

and tiger is no doubt a dominating figure in golf. but could the same not have been said for bobby fischer in chess? not to the quite the same extent as woods but he was so dominating the competition at such a young age that competitors could not keep up and this indirectly does make your peers in the "sport" better. So why shouldn't he or Garry Kasparov (perhaps the greates chess player of all time) be included on the list? however the matter being that neither chess nor golf requires any athletic ability whatsoever despite it being a skilled and thinking man's game. that's why we see men in their 50's, 60's and 70's still busting out the drivers. though what they do is hard and requires intense concentration and practice, neither are athletes.




Jim Brown 25
Eddie Merckx 24
Muhammad Ali 25
Jesse Owens 24
Babe Ruth 17
Jim Thorpe 25
Wayne Gretzky 25
Tiger Woods 25
Michael Jordan 25
Lance Armstrong 22
Bo Jackson 22
Michael Johnson 20
Pele 24

Ruth -2

 

[Ironslave]

This is getting ridiculous.

Golf is just as much a sport as is tennis, the only difference is the running around. In fact, the golf swing is much more complicated.

 

[Duality]

This is getting ridiculous.

Golf is just as much a sport as is tennis, the only difference is the running around. In fact, the golf swing is much more complicated.

i'm not trying to piss people off (again) here. and "only" does not give the tennis player justice. the golf swing is complicated, as is chess. neither requires any kind of athletic ability except a functioning torso.

 

[Ironslave]

the golf swing is complicated, as is chess. neither requires any kind of athletic ability except a functioning torso.

You've absolutely got to be kidding to claim the golf swing, or a baseball swing, requires minimal athletic ability, seriously.

 

[Duality]

You've absolutely got to be kidding to claim the golf swing, or a baseball swing, requires minimal athletic ability, seriously.

the golf swing?!? yes that is what i'm saying. do john daly and phil mickelson come off as gifted athletes to you? it does not require anykind of athletic ability, only lots of practice, a certain degree of eye hand coordination, and a good judgement of distance.

i have never played baseball so i can't really speak on that. but i have been golfing many times before, while it took focus, it was not physically challenging in the least bit.

 

[Ironslave]

the golf swing?!? yes that is what i'm saying. do john daly and phil mickelson come off as gifted athletes to you? it does not require anykind of athletic ability, only lots of practice, a certain degree of eye hand coordination, and a good judgement of distance.

Have you ever played an actual round of golf? What about the baseball swing, is that not athletic either? No, John Daly and Phil Mickelson probably can't run a 4 minute mile, but neither could someone like a wrestler, or a linebacker, or a sprinter. But, none of those could come close to the delicacy a golf swing requires, flexibility, strength, co-ordination, balance, timing. If even the slightest thing is off, a golfer pays dearly. No action in sport is near as precise as the golf swing.

+ a bunch for Ruth.

 

[Ironslave]

Does shooting a basketball (well) require athletic ability?

 

[Paulie]

I think Duality is misunderstanding the classifications of being an athlete.

Jim Brown 25
Eddie Merckx 24
Muhammad Ali 25
Jesse Owens 24
Babe Ruth 18
Jim Thorpe 25
Wayne Gretzky 25
Tiger Woods 25
Michael Jordan 25
Lance Armstrong 22
Bo Jackson 21
Michael Johnson 20
Pele 24

+ 1 Babe Ruth
- 1 Bo Jackson

 

[Duality]

Does shooting a basketball (well) require athletic ability?

no. the shooting of the basketball is akin to the swing of the golfer. practice, timing, and focus must all be intertwined into one. HOWEVER the shooting is only one aspect of the sport of basketball, whereas the swing is all there is to golf (including putting).

an NBA player must have...

*superb cardiovascular condition
*the ability to run and memorize set offensive plays
*once a given possesion is over, the ability to play one on one or zone defense.
*superb athletic ability. whether it be speed, leaping ability, uncanny reflexes, or a combination of all 3. these men have the closest thing to superhero physical abilities on the planet (with NFL athletes)
*if they do not posses a superior athletic ability, they must have another physical trait/gift. Height is the most common trait.

kind of see what i'm saying? the thing i find most amusing about golf is that the only thing that requires physical exertion, walking to the next hole with their clubs, they eliminate by driving a golf cart and having their caddies carry their clubs for them. that's just funny to me

 

[Ironslave]

So extreme power, co-ordination, flexibility, timing, ability to keep steady, balanced, you don't consider that athletic?

How about Ruth's ability to pitch and throw the ball probably 90 odd miles per hour? Or his ability to react in a split second and hit the ball going 90 miles per hour over 300 feet?

 

[Duality]

So extreme power, co-ordination, flexibility, timing, ability to keep steady, balanced, you don't consider that athletic?

How about Ruth's ability to pitch and throw the ball probably 90 odd miles per hour? Or his ability to react in a split second and hit the ball going 90 miles per hour over 300 feet?

a golf swing does include as you said "coordination, flexibility, timing, and balance" but it does not require "extereme" power. seriously you have to admit that's just a little bit of a hyberbole there.

and you didn't address the basketball jumpshot comparison and the golfer thing i wrote. do you see how a jumpshot is similar to a golf swing in that neither requires athletic ability, but that is only one facet of the sport for basketball? the NBA player not only has to have that "focus" but the accompaning athletic ability to play the game at a high level. the golfer at the PGA does not need to posses this to play at a high level making them vastly inferior to the NBA player in athletic ability and status among other athletes (if you even want to consider the golfer an "athlete").

i'm digressing on my stance on baseball especially after what line explained to me about it. the ability to throw a baseball 90mph is impressive and my stance on it was more or less an uneducated one. but unless you have some enlightening statement or arguement for golf i'm not seeing nor agreeing with your stance on it.