The Training Support Column MkII

[tim290280]

^^ This is pretty much how I'm thinking too. Before he goes off recommending things I'd like to see some actual specific trials on this, as what I have seen of the work he referenced isn't really based around athletes;

J Appl Physiol. 2001 Aug;91(2):569-80.

Selective muscle hypertrophy, changes in EMG and force, and serum hormones during strength training in older women.
Hakkinen K, Pakarinen A, Kraemer WJ, Hakkinen A, Valkeinen H, Alen M.

Neuromuscular Research Center and Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyvaskyla, 40351 Jyvaskyla, Finland.

Abstract:
Effects of strength training (ST) for 21 wk were examined in 10 older women (64 +/- 3 yr). Electromyogram, maximal isometric force, one-repetition maximum strength, and rate of force development of the leg extensors, muscle cross-sectional area (CSA) of the quadriceps femoris (QF) and of vastus lateralis (VL), medialis (VM), intermedius (VI) and rectus femoris (RF) throughout the lengths of 3/12--12/15 (Lf) of the femur, muscle fiber proportion and areas of types I, IIa, and IIb of the VL were evaluated. Serum hormone concentrations of testosterone, growth hormone (GH), cortisol, and IGF-I were analyzed for the resting, preexercise, and postexercise conditions. After the 21-wk ST, maximal force increased by 37% (P < 0.001) and 1-RM by 29% (P < 0.001), accompanied by an increase (P < 0.01) in rate of force development. The integrated electromyograms of the vastus muscles increased (P < 0.05). The CSA of the total QF increased (P < 0.05) throughout the length of the femur by 5--9%. The increases were significant (P < 0.05) at 7/15--12/15 Lf for VL and at 3/15--8/15 Lf for VM, at 5/15--9/15 for VI and at 9/15 (P < 0.05) for RF. The fiber areas of type I (P < 0.05), IIa (P < 0.001), and IIb (P < 0.001) increased by 22--36%. No changes occurred during ST in serum basal concentrations of the hormones examined, but the level of testosterone correlated with the changes in the CSA of the QF (r = 0.64, P < 0.05). An acute increase of GH (P < 0.05), remaining elevated up to 30 min (P < 0.05) postloading, was observed only at posttraining. Both neural adaptations and the capacity of skeletal muscle to undergo training-induced hypertrophy even in older women explain the strength gains. The increases in the CSA of the QF occurred throughout its length but differed selectively between the individual muscles. The serum concentrations of hormones remained unaltered, but a low level of testosterone may be a limiting factor in training-induced muscle hypertrophy. The magnitude and time duration of the acute GH response may be important physiological indicators of anabolic adaptations during strength training even in older women.

Anyone elses thoughts?

I'd like Ironslave's thoughts and experience/reading on this too.

 

[tim290280]

For all the sports people here.

High-impact sports may accelerate the degeneration of joints

by Dr. Paul Cribb Ph.D. CSCS.
AST Director of Research

Anyone who has played basketball or football for years will tell you those types of high-impact sports sure takes their toll on joints such as the knees and ankles as well as the spine. Now research has confirmed that high-impact force not only damages joint tissue, it causes premature degeneration of cartilage and joint tissue.

When tissue is damaged by an impact-related injury, it typically stimulates an influx of leukocytes (immune cells) known for promoting tissue regeneration and healing. However this research showed that leukocytes can be a double edged sword. In the May 2006 issue of Arthritis & Rheumatism researchers at Baylor College of Medicine and the Michael E DeBakey Veterans Affairs Medical Center in Houston, Texas, presented the results of a study that suggest leukocytes go beyond the zone of damaged cells and attack healthy cartilage cells after an acute injury.

The results indicated that after damage had occurred via the impact, the leukocytes not only attacked the damaged cells (to clean up debris and promote healing), they also attacked and murdered surrounding healthy cartilage cells!

According to the researchers, the real culprit was the leukocytes' generation of noxious nitric oxide (NO). The scientists confirmed this by demonstrating that the killing of healthy cartilage cells (chondrocytes) could be averted by desferoxamine, a chemical that blocks the production of NO. Based on these results, it would appear as though a person plays high-impact sports should probably steer clear of taking supplements that promote NO production. The increase in NO and leukocytes may provide excessive damage to cartilage tissue that accelerates the degeneration of joint tissue.

Source: Arthritis & Rheumatism Vol54; 5, 2006.

 

[Ironslave]

Hey Tim,

I skimmed things, not sure exactly which one you want my thoughts on ,if it is the Christian Thibaudeau stuff about selective chest hypertrophy, he's an idiot. I think he's another example of a coach who has lost his marbles, trying to appeal to the masses. His stuff on chest width is stupid, chest press to the neck most definately could cause shoulder problems, and his obsession with Vince Gironda is strange/dumb. The jury is still out as far as research is concerned on the implications if "selective hypertrophy" can occur, i myself have seen/been a part of a study that says it doesnt. Line makes a good point, who's to say the changes in muscle architecture arent a result of the genetic predisposition. Regardless, with this type of stuff, i think DC puts it well, in that if you can bench press 405 for 10 solid reps, you won't be worrying about your "inner chest".

 

[tim290280]

Hey Tim,

I skimmed things, not sure exactly which one you want my thoughts on ,if it is the Christian Thibaudeau stuff about selective chest hypertrophy, he's an idiot. I think he's another example of a coach who has lost his marbles, trying to appeal to the masses. His stuff on chest width is stupid, chest press to the neck most definately could cause shoulder problems, and his obsession with Vince Gironda is strange/dumb. The jury is still out as far as research is concerned on the implications if "selective hypertrophy" can occur, i myself have seen/been a part of a study that says it doesnt. Line makes a good point, who's to say the changes in muscle architecture arent a result of the genetic predisposition. Regardless, with this type of stuff, i think DC puts it well, in that if you can bench press 405 for 10 solid reps, you won't be worrying about your "inner chest".

Thanks Ironslave.

I do agree that his Vince Gironda obsession is stupid. So many methods that have been shown to be hazardous to your long term training health, why support them? I've been a bit suspect with his last two articles, as he has talked about isolating certain muscles or parts of those muscles (VMO now inner and outer chest). There is yet to be any solid research to support this at all.

Maybe this is the Paul Check principle. You get to the point where everyone around you is a disciple and blowing smoke up your ass so you stop being objective.

 

[Chesticles]

Hey man thanks for your input.

I got more Q's for ya

What's your thoughts on switching each week between high and low/medium rep range? I've seen a few guys on here do it. The split I'm on now I do 3 x 8 and 1 x 12 at the end for a high rep set. Wanted to here your thoughts on it big man.

 

[tim290280]

What's your thoughts on switching each week between high and low/medium rep range? I've seen a few guys on here do it. The split I'm on now I do 3 x 8 and 1 x 12 at the end for a high rep set. Wanted to here your thoughts on it big man.

I actually do many different rep ranges for muscle groups (similar movements) throughout my training week. I do this to help with making me more efficient at recruiting muscles for varying movements, and also to help with avoiding stagnation from adaption, while also offering both higher loading and hypertrophy opertunities.

So I see no problem with a well desgined program incorporating varying rep ranges, in fact it is preferable. But as for swapping week to week, well that would be similar to cycling intensity, but would lack the proper application and thus not give as many benefits as a proper cycle. So if you wanted to use different rep ranges it would be better to have that as a base of your weekly program that then varies in intensity over a month.

e.g. Three day whole body
day 1 LB low reps
UB medium reps
Arm/Accessory hyper
day 2 UB low reps
LB hyper
access medium reps
day 3 LB hyper
UB medium
access low

 

[tim290280]

I'm suprised my details are still on the other board. Clearly they are still giving out crap advice over there.

----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Yasbek
To: tscanlon10@hotmail.com
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 8:09 AM


Tim,

Me contacting you may seem rather odd but I think that you can help me with a problem that I am currnely having. I saw you that you replied to a post on ************************ regarding forearm pain. It seemed as if you have had this before and now exactly how to handle it. I started a heavy lifting program one month ago and have been getting extreme pain in my forearms ever since. The pain, at first, was located in my forearms and would only appear with arm exercises. The pain is now occuring with all of my other exercises. It is a deep pain centralized around the bones themselves, or so it seems. If you have any information on this condition or any advice on how to treat it, I would really appreciate your input. Thanks.

Thanks again,

Nick
Sacramento, CA

Nick,

Yes I left the ************************ after the new board owners took over. I formerly had a training column in the VIP section that has moved to www.musclemecca.com . So email or the new board would be the only way to contact me. I'd recommend the muscle mecca board as it is where the majority of active members went from BBD.

Forearm pain is usually caused by inflammation of the tendons or ligaments (carpel tunnel is an example). I found that I had this problem from Preacher/Scott curls, and later using straight bars for curls. This was a two fold problem; 1) straight bars and preacher benches place the forearm in a poor leverage position and causes the tendons to rub against one another and the bones. 2) poor strength in the forearms allows the wrist to 'curl' during the exercise (rather than remaining straight) so you increase the problem in #1.

So the solutions;
1) Allow some rest for the forearms and arms
2) Don't use and barbells or ezy bars or preacher benches for curls (only add barbells back in after the problem has been resolved)
3) Strengthen the forearms and grip. The grip page by John Brookfield has many ideas on this. Wrist roller is my favourite for forearms.
4) Remember that grip and forearms are not necessarily related. Grip is about hand strength so crushing, supporting, and pinching.

Now this all assumes that it is a carpel tunnel style problem. If the pain is throughout the forearms then this is likely. If it is localised to a spot it could be stress fractures or tendon/ligament tears. If the latter is involved then sports doctors or physios are people you should seek out.

Cheers, Tim.

Edit: I love that the old board name can't be mentioned but instead appears as ***.

 

[Arcane1129]

I'm suprised my details are still on the other board. Clearly they are still giving out crap advice over there.

Nick,

Yes I left the ************************ after the new board owners took over. I formerly had a training column in the VIP section that has moved to www.musclemecca.com . So email or the new board would be the only way to contact me. I'd recommend the muscle mecca board as it is where the majority of active members went from BBD.

Forearm pain is usually caused by inflammation of the tendons or ligaments (carpel tunnel is an example). I found that I had this problem from Preacher/Scott curls, and later using straight bars for curls. This was a two fold problem; 1) straight bars and preacher benches place the forearm in a poor leverage position and causes the tendons to rub against one another and the bones. 2) poor strength in the forearms allows the wrist to 'curl' during the exercise (rather than remaining straight) so you increase the problem in #1.

So the solutions;
1) Allow some rest for the forearms and arms
2) Don't use and barbells or ezy bars or preacher benches for curls (only add barbells back in after the problem has been resolved)
3) Strengthen the forearms and grip. The grip page by John Brookfield has many ideas on this. Wrist roller is my favourite for forearms.
4) Remember that grip and forearms are not necessarily related. Grip is about hand strength so crushing, supporting, and pinching.

Now this all assumes that it is a carpel tunnel style problem. If the pain is throughout the forearms then this is likely. If it is localised to a spot it could be stress fractures or tendon/ligament tears. If the latter is involved then sports doctors or physios are people you should seek out.

Cheers, Tim.

Edit: I love that the old board name can't be mentioned but instead appears as ***.

I lol'd when I saw that.

 

[imraan47]

what do u think is better as far as cardio goes...that is, do u think doing it for 1/2hr straight (or more), at a good speed or doing it at shorter intervals but at a very high intensity?
edit: goal is to loose the body fat

 

[tim290280]

what do u think is better as far as cardio goes...that is, do u think doing it for 1/2hr straight (or more), at a good speed or doing it at shorter intervals but at a very high intensity?
edit: goal is to loose the body fat

Show me a fat sprinter.

I know thats a little simple but it was a quote from the free MuscleMag I got with my supps. Personally I like higher intensity stuff for short durations, like interval sprints, as it promotes cardio gains, metabolism, and fat loss.

But I also do low intensity stuff, like walking the dog, going to the shops for groceries. I believe that the low intensity stuff should just be increased general activity (and you notice when you don't do as much!!) and the high intensity is the workouts.

So essentially do both. But think of the sprints as the planned workout for fat loss worked in around your lifting program, and then be more active the rest of the time.

 

[imraan47]

Show me a fat sprinter.

I know thats a little simple but it was a quote from the free MuscleMag I got with my supps. Personally I like higher intensity stuff for short durations, like interval sprints, as it promotes cardio gains, metabolism, and fat loss.

But I also do low intensity stuff, like walking the dog, going to the shops for groceries. I believe that the low intensity stuff should just be increased general activity (and you notice when you don't do as much!!) and the high intensity is the workouts.

So essentially do both. But think of the sprints as the planned workout for fat loss worked in around your lifting program, and then be more active the rest of the time.

welll i walk from my residence and classes 5 days a week a few times a day. and also i walk to and from the gym as its on campus. so i guess that would cover that. as far as my cardio right now, i just use the eliptical. i dont really like the treadmill and running.
but when you say sprints, how long should each go for. i always thought that maintaining that heart rate at a certain level will promote fatloss.

 

[tim290280]

welll i walk from my residence and classes 5 days a week a few times a day. and also i walk to and from the gym as its on campus. so i guess that would cover that. as far as my cardio right now, i just use the eliptical. i dont really like the treadmill and running.
but when you say sprints, how long should each go for. i always thought that maintaining that heart rate at a certain level will promote fatloss.

Sustained cardio efforts require about 30-40 minutes of effort before fat loss begins. This is steady state cardio/aerobics. I always found this stuff to be boring personally but it does work. You'd just have to be at it for an hour.

The sprints are intervals. I've done them on a stationary bike before, but prefer to do them as hill sprints. Basically you set a time or distance to cover at maximum effort, then have a slow section before hitting it again. I've used 30sec on 1min off, and I've used 50/50 split. Either way you keep going for around 5-10 minutes. If you last longer then well done.

The sprints will fire up the metabolism for a long while after the session so this is how it promotes leanness. You can stretch the session out more by having longer rest intervals. So if you sprint the hill and then walk slowly down and then catch your breathe you can extend that walking time.

 

[tim290280]

Neuroimmunomodulation. 2004;11(5):293-8.

Effects of sexual arousal on lymphocyte subset circulation and cytokine production in man.
Haake P, Krueger TH, Goebel MU, Heberling KM, Hartmann U, Schedlowski M. Department of Medical Psychology, University Clinic of Essen, Essen, Germany.

OBJECTIVE: Sexual arousal and orgasm induce an increase in sympathetic activity as well as in catecholamine and prolactin plasma concentrations. However, the effects of sexual arousal and orgasm on immune functions in man are unknown. Thus, this study investigated the effects of masturbation-induced orgasm on lymphocyte circulation and cytokine production in healthy young males. METHODS: In a crossover design, 11 volunteers completed an experimental condition in which they were asked to masturbate until orgasm and to participate in a control condition without sexual activity. Blood was drawn continuously for determination of endocrine parameters. In addition, leukocyte and lymphocyte subsets were analyzed via flow cytometry, and the production of lipopolysaccharide-induced interleukin 6 and tumor necrosis factor alpha was measured before and then 5 and 45 min after the orgasm. RESULTS: The results confirmed transient increases in adrenaline and prolactin plasma concentrations. Sexual arousal and orgasm increased the absolute number of leukocytes, in particular natural killer cells (CD3-CD16+CD56+), in the peripheral blood. In contrast, T cell (CD3+) and B cell (CD3-CD20+) subpopulations as well as the production of interleukin 6 and tumor necrosins factor alpha remained unaffected by sexual activity. CONCLUSION: These findings demonstrate that components of the innate immune system are activated by sexual arousal and orgasm. PMID: 15316239 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

So basically in a room full of scientists taking notes and measurements they have a guy sitting there wacking off!

That does it I'm changing fields to see what dodgy experiments I can do.
"The effects of female same sex interactions on male immune system"
"Stimulation of nipples impacts on cancer cells"........................

 

[philosopher]

^^lol... make sure you get them on vid and post them in here

 

[Chesticles]

Hey tim, I have another question.

I see some people's logs, and they stick to a routine as in they'll do the same exercises and # of reps (or try to) and go up and or down in weights accordingly, and they'll switch routines at the 6 - 8 week period.

On the other hand, some people will just have bodyparts they'll workout in each session eg shoulders and tris, but won't actually have any set number of sets or reps or exercises.

What do you think is better to do?

 

[tim290280]

Hey tim, I have another question.

I see some people's logs, and they stick to a routine as in they'll do the same exercises and # of reps (or try to) and go up and or down in weights accordingly, and they'll switch routines at the 6 - 8 week period.

On the other hand, some people will just have bodyparts they'll workout in each session eg shoulders and tris, but won't actually have any set number of sets or reps or exercises.

What do you think is better to do?

Of those two options? I'd go with the first one.

The reason being that the average trainee needs some structure to the training for progressive overload. But there are exceptions.

But I think both approaches are kinda lame. The first approach is typifying the standard progression approach that ultimately leads to the need for change. This is due to only one measure of progress, and the stagnant training adaption. The second is split training but worse than that, it lacks any carefull planning (NB: there may be planning but unlikely) which means that some exercises will be used once in a blue moon, while the favourites will be used all year.

 

[Chesticles]

Of those two options? I'd go with the first one.

The reason being that the average trainee needs some structure to the training for progressive overload. But there are exceptions.

But I think both approaches are kinda lame. The first approach is typifying the standard progression approach that ultimately leads to the need for change. This is due to only one measure of progress, and the stagnant training adaption. The second is split training but worse than that, it lacks any carefull planning (NB: there may be planning but unlikely) which means that some exercises will be used once in a blue moon, while the favourites will be used all year.

What would be the ideal training style then?

 

[tim290280]

This is my evil post!! (#666)

What would be the ideal training style then?

This is a bit vague.

How you train and for what is as important in determining your style as the actual lifestyle considerations. Optimal training is regular training, but most people aren't full time athletes, so they have to make do with a few sessions a week. Not everyone recovers the same, especially if they have a bit more stress from work. I've gone from 4 days a week training to 3 because I'm in the final stages of my PhD. I just don't have the energy or time.

So there are some basics that will always hold true. Big exercises, frequent, many body parts in one session, balanced motions, rest and nutrition. This isn't saying squat 5x pw but rather working your thighs several times would be better than once. Though for this to work you can't hammer yourself into the ground.

I can give a better answer if you give me an idea of what you do/want.

 

[Chesticles]

I'm in bulking mode right now, I wasn't looking for anything in particular, I was just curious as to what you thought was better, because I always have a set # of reps I try to do, and I see some people on here will do 2 reps for a heavy weight, I'm guessing to see how much they can lift and to see if they can handle the weight, and I never do that, I'm a firm believer in sticking to routine.

 

[Chesticles]

Also, I'm thinking of taking a week off in a few weeks to let my knee rest up after I finish the program I'm on, but then it'll only be like 2 or 3 months before I have a 2 week break for holidays, do you think I should just stick it out until then?