US Veteran furious American flag flying lower than Mexico's

[Ryeland]

I agree with you Ryeland till the traditions part.. America.. is cultureless we don't have a set tone in culture is fact we are the only nation where the persuit of happiness is given in writing.

I can burn the american flag in my front yard and be within my rights so why should he be forced to fly the American flag higher or the same level as the Mexican flag it's his choice. That is the basis on whihc this country is built on the freedom of speech and expression.

Fair enough, I will agree that this currently a national culture is different than that of our parents. Today's youth embraces a much more globalized view of the world. We have access to so much information that we don't blindly accept the truth of a newspaper or news network (cough, fox news, cough). However the older generations still have a highly nationalized sense of culture.

As a Canadian, I don't see you Americans being very different from us at all. Except when it comes to Hockey and brewing a decent beer (thems' fightin' words and i know it).

Interesting argument though Samoan. I think America has a strong culture, but I don't think its nationalized. Do you think the country's culture reflects what is set out in the pursuit of happiness? I would be interested to hear the reply.

 

[Samoan-Z]

As a Canadian, I don't see you Americans being very different from us at all. Except when it comes to Hockey and brewing a decent beer (thems' fightin' words and i know it).

Interesting argument though Samoan. I think America has a strong culture, but I don't think its nationalized. Do you think the country's culture reflects what is set out in the pursuit of happiness? I would be interested to hear the reply.

... the fuck you say about our beer? lol jk.

Yes I do actually, I mean we don't have a culture but in a way that is our culture. We don't have set traditions to follow unless they are of the government or set institutions such as Masons, or Scientologist. But in our culturless culture our happiness differs from the happiness of countries that have culture, and it truely isn't even our happiness it's what appears to make you happy protrayed by media day by day hour by hour.

the world has changed vastly from a couple centurys ago in tersm of happiness in the medieval times it was an accepted notion that would could die, you lived with it so what right?

But Americans today believed themselves invincible untouchable I actually wrote a composition paper about our beleif of being untouchable prior to and until the events of 9/11 opened our eyes.

but I am straying off topic, our lacking culture leaves only the material possessions to make us happy, millions of dollars, 5 cars, bitches left and right, and the envy of everyone, that is happiness for about 80% of america, which is seriously sad.

where as we take the culture of say an Omish man (sorry they are the only I am knowedgable of) Thier culture revolves around the belief of being isolated from technology, and closer to god.

these possesions such as money, and technology means nothing to them but they are happy. So yes in the way our cultureless culture sets the tone for what we believe to be happiness, and we are told to persue it.

 

[Ironslave]

The Vet was in the wrong, say if a man was ...french... nah fuck that say yea from mexico natrual born mexican citizen and U.S. citizen through process it would be respectful for him to give top homage to his place of birth no matter where he lives.

And the fact he put the american flag below it means nothing, He gave both flags due respect. Now if this was in mexico and the american flag was above the mexican flag oh god forbid they take it down this our "patriotic" and ignorant asses and yes I said it americans in general are ignorant people that's a fucking fact.
We have people in the coutry who can swear Ben Franklin is was a president.

anywho now if a Mexcian in mexico took down the American flag that was above a mexican flagg we would go ape shit because it looks like it's anti-american omgooses! they must be terroist etc etc Americans needs to get off thier fucking high horses.

P.S. I'm an American.

thank you, exactly.

 

[Duality]

Originally posted by Ryeland
The reason i bring this up is that America is not the only place with traditions that are not to be crossed like this. That store owner was assaulting that veterans beliefs. Were they both wrong, yes. Should the veteran be punished? Yes, he should at least pay for what he destroyed.

this snippet of your post is grossly misstated. how in the world was this man in the wrong for placing a mexican flag above an american one? he is allowed to have pride for whatever country he pleases and so long as he doesn't disrespect the american flag (which he didn't) he is fully within his rights of self expression. those men standing outside the store were obviously mexican, and they are fully allowed to be proud of where they come from and express that.

and this man was not assaulting this veterans beliefs. the veteran may have thought he was, but we have a word for that, and it's senility.

 

[El Freako]

Its ridiculous how uppity some people get about their flag, veteran or not. Its not like he set it on fire or wiped his arse with it for fucks sake. He, and some people in this thread, need to realise that it is very unlikely that the guy meant any offence, and further, that the fact that he was flying the US flag along with the flag of his home country was probably meant as a mark of respect or love for the US.

 

[skindnef]

El Freako has it right.

The old Fuck was completely in the wrong. period.

"represents a regime that indiscriminately killed hundreds of thousands, probably even millions of people in a brutal fashion simply because of their religion. "

Symbolism is a funny thing. My example of the swastika for example, as a symbol it's taboo now, except if your a Neo Nazi or whatever they call there stupid asses.
Another example, the cross. Is still symbolic of Christianity, even though far more died from Christianity through history than jews during the holocaust.

 

[Duality]

Its ridiculous how uppity some people get about their flag, veteran or not. Its not like he set it on fire or wiped his arse with it for fucks sake. He, and some people in this thread, need to realise that it is very unlikely that the guy meant any offence, and further, that the fact that he was flying the US flag along with the flag of his home country was probably meant as a mark of respect or love for the US.

 

[sexnews]

Regardless of what he faught for... who cares? They're two pieces of fabric at different heights. Maybe the owner is more proud of his Mexican roots, or maybe it was just a pure coincidence. Regardless of how colluded the veteran's logic is, there is absolutely nothing to justify this behavior. I hope he faces full prosecution.

A flag can also be a very strong and emotional symbol.







Not only talking about the American flag



and of course it can always be used for someting else

(no porn in public sections, plz)

 

[Johnny Bravo]

"Flags are symbols and I leave symbols to the simple-minded."

George Carlin

 

[Ryeland]

this snippet of your post is grossly misstated. how in the world was this man in the wrong for placing a mexican flag above an american one? he is allowed to have pride for whatever country he pleases and so long as he doesn't disrespect the american flag (which he didn't) he is fully within his rights of self expression. those men standing outside the store were obviously mexican, and they are fully allowed to be proud of where they come from and express that.

I am sorry, the mexican is wrong in that he is breaking the law. Morally I have nothing against him hanging the flag how he wants to. However the law of the land he is in is that the american flag must be above the other. A rather stupid and silly law, still it is a law.

I strongly encourage everyone to put forth any sense of cultural pride they have. However with that ability to show your pride for your country some people are going to abuse that pride. Which is basically what i have been saying.

You are right I made my argument brief at the cost of clarity. Legally they are both wrong is what i should say. Morally I think the vet is wrong and his actions are insulting, if he wishes his traditions and beliefs to have respect he should respect those of others. But I am able to understand where he is coming from, and how emotion can overcome logic and reason.

The flag obviously means a great deal to him symbolically. To avoid conflicts like this we have to understand the culture of the areas in which we live.

 

[Tech]

- The flag should never be drawn back or bunched up in any way.

- When the flag is lowered, no part of it should touch the ground or any other object; it should be received by waiting hands and arms. To store the flag it should be folded neatly and ceremoniously.

 

[Samoan-Z]

Although it is the law the veteran had no right to take the law into his hands he should have contacted the proper officals to correct the situation rather than take justice into his own hands.

 

[Duality]

I am sorry, the mexican is wrong in that he is breaking the law. Morally I have nothing against him hanging the flag how he wants to. However the law of the land he is in is that the american flag must be above the other. A rather stupid and silly law, still it is a law.

I strongly encourage everyone to put forth any sense of cultural pride they have. However with that ability to show your pride for your country some people are going to abuse that pride. Which is basically what i have been saying.

You are right I made my argument brief at the cost of clarity. Legally they are both wrong is what i should say. Morally I think the vet is wrong and his actions are insulting, if he wishes his traditions and beliefs to have respect he should respect those of others. But I am able to understand where he is coming from, and how emotion can overcome logic and reason.

The flag obviously means a great deal to him symbolically. To avoid conflicts like this we have to understand the culture of the areas in which we live.

i agree this is put much better. i was not aware that that was a law (pretty effing stupid law imo) so i guess "technically" the mexican was wrong. this veteran still deserves prosecution so he can understand the laws of this country he so vehemently stands up for. if he had as much respect for this nation as he claimed he did, he wouldn't break it's laws.

 

[Braaq]

i agree this is put much better. i was not aware that that was a law (pretty effing stupid law imo) so i guess "technically" the mexican was wrong. this veteran still deserves prosecution so he can understand the laws of this country he so vehemently stands up for. if he had as much respect for this nation as he claimed he did, he wouldn't break it's laws.

Stupid law yes, but it is meant for respect for the nations flag that provides you the freedom you enjoy and that many (including this man) have fought and died for. Now, it doesn't mean he is right in his actions. But he is obviously passionate about this and why he did it. He felt literally offended.
It is the same as someone pissing me off or offending me, I could ignore it or get the authorities. When you succumb to emotions like most human beings you would hit the person. This is against the law, but at the time is the person really thinking about that?

 

[Duality]

Although it is the law the veteran had no right to take the law into his hands he should have contacted the proper officals to correct the situation rather than take justice into his own hands.

it's fine to be passionate about something but once he cooled off he should have apoligized for his actions. he has no excuse for what he did. if i was the store owner i would forgive him if he just apoligized. if he has no intentions of doing so.....full prosecution.

 

[Ryeland]

... the fuck you say about our beer? lol jk.

Yes I do actually, I mean we don't have a culture but in a way that is our culture. We don't have set traditions to follow unless they are of the government or set institutions such as Masons, or Scientologist. But in our culturless culture our happiness differs from the happiness of countries that have culture, and it truely isn't even our happiness it's what appears to make you happy protrayed by media day by day hour by hour.

the world has changed vastly from a couple centurys ago in tersm of happiness in the medieval times it was an accepted notion that would could die, you lived with it so what right?

But Americans today believed themselves invincible untouchable I actually wrote a composition paper about our beleif of being untouchable prior to and until the events of 9/11 opened our eyes.

but I am straying off topic, our lacking culture leaves only the material possessions to make us happy, millions of dollars, 5 cars, bitches left and right, and the envy of everyone, that is happiness for about 80% of america, which is seriously sad.

where as we take the culture of say an Omish man (sorry they are the only I am knowedgable of) Thier culture revolves around the belief of being isolated from technology, and closer to god.

these possesions such as money, and technology means nothing to them but they are happy. So yes in the way our cultureless culture sets the tone for what we believe to be happiness, and we are told to persue it.

Excellent Post!

You bring some very keen insights into the growth of materialism stemming from the lack of a strong social culture on what it is to be successful and happy.

I would argue that today's youth are becoming more skeptical of materialism and more aware that the rampant pursuit of material gain is spiritually unfulfilling. That said definitely we currently idolize material gain in North America over another set of goals, religious, social etc. I believe however the American culture simply went too far, having money allows one more freedom to spend time with family and friends and supposedly have more happiness. However happiness has been forgotten as the goal and materialism put in its place.

Excellent post though Samoan. And I said Canadian beer is better. And to prove it, i propose a musclemecca beer testing shindig somewhere near the border!

 

[El Freako]

Stupid law yes, but it is meant for respect for the nations flag that provides you the freedom you enjoy and that many (including this man) have fought and died for. Now, it doesn't mean he is right in his actions. But he is obviously passionate about this and why he did it. He felt literally offended.
It is the same as someone pissing me off or offending me, I could ignore it or get the authorities. When you succumb to emotions like most human beings you would hit the person. This is against the law, but at the time is the person really thinking about that?

I honestly think that this law and the veteran have any logical defence in the matter. Call it an act of passion if you will but its still no defence. He was in the wrong and the law is idiotic.

Brb, checking Australian law in regards to flags. I bet ours are just as stupid.

Edit: nope, we only have guidelines in regards to flag use. Other than that you're free to wipe your arse with and upside-down flaming flag as you wish.

 

[Braaq]

I honestly think that this law and the veteran have any logical defence in the matter. Call it an act of passion if you will but its still no defence. He was in the wrong and the law is idiotic.

Brb, checking Australian law in regards to flags. I bet ours are just as stupid.

Edit: nope, we only have guidelines in regards to flag use. Other than that you're free to wipe your arse with and upside-down flaming flag as you wish.

Well if you look at our history and lots of the propaganda throughout the years you will see that the U.S. pushes patriotism and respect for the country and the symbols. A lot like the Romans did.
Besides, what does Australia have to be proud of?

 

[Ironslave]

Besides, what does Australia have to be proud of?

DriDDerZ?

 

[El Freako]

DriDDerZ?

Don't forget Tim's tights.