Weekly Cutler Vids

[The big king]

Those shoulders look huge!!

 

[FlexFan]

Jay doing pull-ups!That's something new to me...

 

[tim290280]

Jay doing pull-ups!That's something new to me...

I would have called them "Neutral grip chinups with a leg assist through a half-ROM".

Hats off to him for actually hitting chinups, but he reminds me of beginners doing them, not a professional with decades of experience.

 

[mvsf1]

I would have called them "Neutral grip chinups with a leg assist through a half-ROM".

Hats off to him for actually hitting chinups, but he reminds me of beginners doing them, not a professional with decades of experience.

He weights 270+ pounds... LOL. Anyway, he said it wasn't a back workout, maybe he do them properly on back day...

 

[tim290280]

He weights 270+ pounds... LOL. Anyway, he said it wasn't a back workout, maybe he do them properly on back day...

I weigh 88.7kg or 195lb. I have attached 55kg or 121lb for a double on chinups. That means I can do reps with Ronnie Coleman offseason bodyweight.

This entire "I'm/They're big guys and it's harder to do chinups" is just bullshit. These guys are carrying a shitload more muscle than me and yet supposedly this extra muscle precludes them from being able to perform at a fraction of the same level.

Now I'm aware that there is a diminishing return from muscle weight gain after a point, such that for every extra kilo of muscle you require a larger strength gain from that muscle. But if a guy at my size can do chinups at an equivilent of someone much larger then the "big guys can't do chins" arguments are all just excuses.

 

[tim290280]

^^ Lets keep posting big guys doing chinups and pullups.

Matt Kroc showing everyone how to do pullups, count them 23!

 

[mvsf1]

I weigh 88.7kg or 195lb. I have attached 55kg or 121lb for a double on chinups. That means I can do reps with Ronnie Coleman offseason bodyweight.

And I'm 84 and I can't do more than 12 pullups. It's just because I never trained to do more than that number. I mean, ok, they are great to warmup the whole back, but haven't you suffered from biceps pain while doing pullups? I don't think pullups would build a DENSE back as rowing movements. Maybe they give you some back width but my bis hurt too much.

That's why I only do 4 sets of 8 at the very begining of my back workouts.

 

[pGhi]

Matt K < Jay Cutler, its bodybuilding not powerlifting.

 

[tkD]

Victor Martinez

270 lbs bodyweight in the 1st vid

 

[Bulkboy]

i think this form/exercise nazi thing is getting alittle out of hand. ok, if his form was horrible i might have understood it. but it was ok. martinez didnt do full ROM pullups either.

Jay has one of the widest/biggest backs ever so obviously he knows what he is doing to achieve his goal. which is to be a better bber. not a better powerlifter or a stronger pulluper.

sure, matt kroc and constantinov can do more pullups than jay. but then again, they also look like complete crap compared to jay physique wise. let bbers be bbers and powerlifters be powerlifters and enjoy their respective strenghts. cuz honestly, who cares what a guy lifts aslong as he looks phenomenal in bbing?

that video with centopani and poundstone was great in the sense that it highlighted the difference between bbers and strongmen. on one hand u have poundstone who outlifts evan pretty hard, but at the same time u have evan with a much better physique. at that level, it is a crossroad. either u pursue massive strenght or u pursue a chiseled physique.

and yes, before anyone mentions him, ronnie coleman had both. but he had one in a billion genetics. jay doesent.

 

[mvsf1]

i think this form/exercise nazi thing is getting alittle out of hand. ok, if his form was horrible i might have understood it. but it was ok. martinez didnt do full ROM pullups either.

Jay has one of the widest/biggest backs ever so obviously he knows what he is doing to achieve his goal. which is to be a better bber. not a better powerlifter or a stronger pulluper.

sure, matt kroc and constantinov can do more pullups than jay. but then again, they also look like complete crap compared to jay physique wise. let bbers be bbers and powerlifters be powerlifters and enjoy their respective strenghts. cuz honestly, who cares what a guy lifts aslong as he looks phenomenal in bbing?

that video with centopani and poundstone was great in the sense that it highlighted the difference between bbers and strongmen. on one hand u have poundstone who outlifts evan pretty hard, but at the same time u have evan with a much better physique. at that level, it is a crossroad. either u pursue massive strenght or u pursue a chiseled physique.

and yes, before anyone mentions him, ronnie coleman had both. but he had one in a billion genetics. jay doesent.

I could not explain it better. I never rep or neg rep anybody, but you deserve it so much. Repped.

 

[Comin_Up]

i think this form/exercise nazi thing is getting alittle out of hand. ok, if his form was horrible i might have understood it. but it was ok. martinez didnt do full ROM pullups either.

Jay has one of the widest/biggest backs ever so obviously he knows what he is doing to achieve his goal. which is to be a better bber. not a better powerlifter or a stronger pulluper.

sure, matt kroc and constantinov can do more pullups than jay. but then again, they also look like complete crap compared to jay physique wise. let bbers be bbers and powerlifters be powerlifters and enjoy their respective strenghts. cuz honestly, who cares what a guy lifts aslong as he looks phenomenal in bbing?

that video with centopani and poundstone was great in the sense that it highlighted the difference between bbers and strongmen. on one hand u have poundstone who outlifts evan pretty hard, but at the same time u have evan with a much better physique. at that level, it is a crossroad. either u pursue massive strenght or u pursue a chiseled physique.

and yes, before anyone mentions him, ronnie coleman had both. but he had one in a billion genetics. jay doesent.

Well said

 

[Hypocrisy86]

One thing i do not like about some people who do pull-ups/chinups etc. is the swaying of the legs, swaying when crossed etc for "momentum" when i do them outside (10-14 reps) on a brick patio i keep my legs dangling like im a paraplegic. no movement Period.
swaying or any of that leg movement is cheating to me.

 

[_ROBERTiNHO_]

One thing i do not like about some people who do pull-ups/chinups etc. is the swaying of the legs, swaying when crossed etc for "momentum" when i do them outside (10-14 reps) on a brick patio i keep my legs dangling like im a paraplegic. no movement Period.
swaying or any of that leg movement is cheating to me.

Depends. If you wanna improve muscle hypertrofy, I agree with you. But for overal strength, do what Konstantin does, using the maximium of muscle and motor units, carrying over to his deadlift.

 

[tim290280]

I had to at all the replies. Talk about not addressing the argument guys.

The original post I made was that Jay was doing an assissted chinup, not a pullup. As a pro I would like to think Jay would want to get the most out of an exercise, so doing a partial ROM and being assissted isn't necessarily getting the most out of the exercise. I then later posted that big guys can do chinups and pullups as evidenced by a couple of big guys doing pullups and chinups in the videos. But apparently big guys aren't big guys unless they are weighing as much as Jay, currently competing as an IFBB pro, and the reigning Mr O

And I'm 84 and I can't do more than 12 pullups. It's just because I never trained to do more than that number. I mean, ok, they are great to warmup the whole back, but haven't you suffered from biceps pain while doing pullups? I don't think pullups would build a DENSE back as rowing movements. Maybe they give you some back width but my bis hurt too much.

That's why I only do 4 sets of 8 at the very begining of my back workouts.

Why is the number of pullups Matt does relevant exactly? My point was that a big guy is successfully able to do chinups/pullups, so easily he is performing more than most guys can at half his weight.

Also bicep pain is something wrong with you, not pullups.

Also if pullups/chinups don't build a dense back then I guess gymnasts must have been hitting a lot of cable rows to get their outstanding (relative to size of course) back development. I can cite other examples if you like

Matt K < Jay Cutler, its bodybuilding not powerlifting.

1) Matt is competing in BBing in a few weeks time.
2) What has PLing and BBing sporting codes got to do with my original point?

My original point was that big guys should and are able to do pullups/chinups. Matt is a big guy doing pullups. My argument>>>>Your argument.

Victor Martinez

270 lbs bodyweight in the 1st vid

Thanks Dan. Maybe Vic qualifies as being big enough and BBing enough and pro enough and...... oh wait he isn't Mr O so I guess him doing pullups doesn't count either.

i think this form/exercise nazi thing is getting alittle out of hand. ok, if his form was horrible i might have understood it. but it was ok. martinez didnt do full ROM pullups either.

My original post was that he was performing an assissted chinup, not a pullup. Essentially I was stating the difference between someone who owns a car claiming that because they drive a car it is a Ferrari (when it is quite clearly a Ford).

Jay has one of the widest/biggest backs ever so obviously he knows what he is doing to achieve his goal. which is to be a better bber. not a better powerlifter or a stronger pulluper.

Huh? How is this a point relevant to my argument that big guys can do pullups/chinups? Msvf1 stated that big guys can't do them, I was proving they can. This point you make is irrelevant.

sure, matt kroc and constantinov can do more pullups than jay. but then again, they also look like complete crap compared to jay physique wise. let bbers be bbers and powerlifters be powerlifters and enjoy their respective strenghts. cuz honestly, who cares what a guy lifts aslong as he looks phenomenal in bbing?

The amount is irrelevant. The fact that they are PLers is irrelevant. Their physiques are also irrelevant. The fact that they are both big guys doing good form, full ROM pullups is. Pullups and chinups are hard and are one of the best back exercises period! Jay doing them would be best served getting the most out of them, which I doubt is possible with half reps and assisstance. He can continue to do them in this fashion, but they are not a pullup (they were an assissted chinup as I originally pointed out, before msvf1 decided to bro-defend).

that video with centopani and poundstone was great in the sense that it highlighted the difference between bbers and strongmen. on one hand u have poundstone who outlifts evan pretty hard, but at the same time u have evan with a much better physique. at that level, it is a crossroad. either u pursue massive strenght or u pursue a chiseled physique.

Once again, how is this relevant to big guys can actually do chinups/pullups??? Also Evan was no slouch when it came to strength there.

and yes, before anyone mentions him, ronnie coleman had both. but he had one in a billion genetics. jay doesent.

I wouldn't have mentioned it because it is irrelevant. But it actually makes your points about "better development" moot as it suggests that the PLers are PLers because they don't have the same 'pretty' genetics of those that have been successful in BBing.

I could not explain it better. I never rep or neg rep anybody, but you deserve it so much. Repped.

So you only rep people who agree with your disproved logic, rather than expand your mind and understand a larger reality

Well said

I hope this is sarcasm, because his post addressed none of the relevant points.

One thing i do not like about some people who do pull-ups/chinups etc. is the swaying of the legs, swaying when crossed etc for "momentum" when i do them outside (10-14 reps) on a brick patio i keep my legs dangling like im a paraplegic. no movement Period.
swaying or any of that leg movement is cheating to me.

I think you are referring to the kipping motion that people use to provide momentum. Crossfit actually advocate this as the way to do pullups/chinups. I agree that it defeats the purpose of trying to build muscle or real strength, but if you are trying to get better at going over a wall or climbing a tree/building then it can help.

 

[Hypocrisy86]

^ to TIM i guess so, ... i also dont use that type of pull up motion he uses, the i just go straight up, with back muscle. seems like hes using biceps or something

 

[mvsf1]

Huh? How is this a point relevant to my argument that big guys can do pullups/chinups? Msvf1 stated that big guys can't do them, I was proving they can. This point you make is irrelevant.

I didn't said that. I said Jay weights 280pounds anhe he's a bodybuilder. Why in hell he needs to do 20 unassited chinups? He doesn't need to.

Pullups and chinups are hard and are one of the best back exercises period!

Really? Why? Man, forget about talking in an absolut way. There are no "good" or "bad" exercices, only different people. Jay, as Bulky said, has probably the thickest/biggest back in the world, he does know what works for him!!! And I'm sorry but I never watched Ronnie Coleman doing chinups.

And as has been said, those guys are POWERLIFTERS, not bodybuilders. Their back looks tiny compared to Jay. And, AGAIN, Jay wasn't performing a back workout, he was targeting his traps.

Why don't you open your mind and give some credit to the guy that's currently the Mr Olympia? You might know something about weight training, but I bet you Jay Cutler knows what works for him.

This is the same as "Hey, Jay trains like a pussy, he doesn't bench as much as Levrone, he doesn't t-bar row as hard as Ronnie, etc." Ok, you're right. But Jay never tored a pec and Jay still has two lats in his back. Talk about smart training.

 

[tim290280]

I didn't said that. I said Jay weights 280pounds anhe he's a bodybuilder. Why in hell he needs to do 20 unassited chinups? He doesn't need to.

You brought up the reps thing, not me. Stop trying to change your argument. You said:

He weights 270+ pounds... LOL. Anyway, he said it wasn't a back workout, maybe he do them properly on back day...

This statement is to imply that somehow big guys can't do chinups and pullups. I have categorically shown that your claim is nothing but bullshit.

Really? Why? Man, forget about talking in an absolut way. There are no "good" or "bad" exercices, only different people. Jay, as Bulky said, has probably the thickest/biggest back in the world, he does know what works for him!!! And I'm sorry but I never watched Ronnie Coleman doing chinups.

Sorry, but did you just say that pullups and chinups suck?!?

I hope you are not serious, because in terms of loading, in terms of muscle recruitment, in terms of natural movements, in terms of being a closed kinetic chain exercise, in terms of challenging the back muscles there is nothing to compare (deadlifts while good are essentially an isometric for the back).

The next point you make is actually just a strawman. You wanted to try and pretend that the BBer big guys can't do chinups because they weigh so much. This is blatantly false. We have video proof from three big guys, one of them an IFBB pro, Vic. Saying that these guys have big thick backs is just misdirection. I never said they had to do chinups, they can sit in the pulldown to their hearts content for all I care.

And as has been said, those guys are POWERLIFTERS, not bodybuilders. Their back looks tiny compared to Jay. And, AGAIN, Jay wasn't performing a back workout, he was targeting his traps.

Blah blah blah. So what if two of the videos were of powerlifters. They are still big guys doing chinups, which you were insinuating can't be done. Then Dan posts Vic doing chinups. Apparently he isn't big and worthy either. I don't know why there has to be this animosity towards powerlifters from bodybuilders and vice versa. It is pretty childish to denigrate the achievements of powerlifters just because they don't look like a Mr O competitor, just like it is pretty childish to denigrate a BBer for not suiting up and lifting in competition. I'm sure you'd hate me pointing out that, from the stats you cited of yourself, that you are weaker and smaller than me just as I would hate you pointing out that they don't make pro tan dark enough to hide my pale skin for me to step on stage.

Why don't you open your mind and give some credit to the guy that's currently the Mr Olympia? You might know something about weight training, but I bet you Jay Cutler knows what works for him.

Yes it is clearly me who is being closed minded. You decided that big guys can't do chinups and have been proven to be incorrect, yet you have continued this argument by pretending that somehow using examples that aren't Jay Cutler or Ronnie Colemen somehow doesn't count.

This is the same as "Hey, Jay trains like a pussy, he doesn't bench as much as Levrone, he doesn't t-bar row as hard as Ronnie, etc." Ok, you're right. But Jay never tored a pec and Jay still has two lats in his back. Talk about smart training.

To my best recollection I have never commented on Jay's benching, nor the amount that he t-bar rows. I have commented on his smith machine squats and his sloppy form as being bad examples. I take a point with this bad form as people like Jay are held up as role models for people in the sport and on its fringes. If they are only exposed to poor form then they are likely to get hurt or worse never be able to train again.

But once again that is not the point. You insinuated that big guys can't do chinups, you were proved wrong. Stop trying to make this about something else.

 

[Comin_Up]

You brought up the reps thing, not me. Stop trying to change your argument. You said:

This statement is to imply that somehow big guys can't do chinups and pullups. I have categorically shown that your claim is nothing but bullshit.


Sorry, but did you just say that pullups and chinups suck?!?

I hope you are not serious, because in terms of loading, in terms of muscle recruitment, in terms of natural movements, in terms of being a closed kinetic chain exercise, in terms of challenging the back muscles there is nothing to compare (deadlifts while good are essentially an isometric for the back).

The next point you make is actually just a strawman. You wanted to try and pretend that the BBer big guys can't do chinups because they weigh so much. This is blatantly false. We have video proof from three big guys, one of them an IFBB pro, Vic. Saying that these guys have big thick backs is just misdirection. I never said they had to do chinups, they can sit in the pulldown to their hearts content for all I care.


Blah blah blah. So what if two of the videos were of powerlifters. They are still big guys doing chinups, which you were insinuating can't be done. Then Dan posts Vic doing chinups. Apparently he isn't big and worthy either. I don't know why there has to be this animosity towards powerlifters from bodybuilders and vice versa. It is pretty childish to denigrate the achievements of powerlifters just because they don't look like a Mr O competitor, just like it is pretty childish to denigrate a BBer for not suiting up and lifting in competition. I'm sure you'd hate me pointing out that, from the stats you cited of yourself, that you are weaker and smaller than me just as I would hate you pointing out that they don't make pro tan dark enough to hide my pale skin for me to step on stage.


Yes it is clearly me who is being closed minded. You decided that big guys can't do chinups and have been proven to be incorrect, yet you have continued this argument by pretending that somehow using examples that aren't Jay Cutler or Ronnie Colemen somehow doesn't count.


To my best recollection I have never commented on Jay's benching, nor the amount that he t-bar rows. I have commented on his smith machine squats and his sloppy form as being bad examples. I take a point with this bad form as people like Jay are held up as role models for people in the sport and on its fringes. If they are only exposed to poor form then they are likely to get hurt or worse never be able to train again.

But once again that is not the point. You insinuated that big guys can't do chinups, you were proved wrong. Stop trying to make this about something else.

Sweet burn bro

 

[jonathan]

guys.... come on