Official Ron Paul Discussion Thread

[Bulkboy]

Yes, let's vote for the guy with the "aura". "Huckabee is funny!! did you hear when he said Jesus wouldn't run for office?! OMGLOLZZZZ I'm voting for that guy!!!"

i didnt say i supported huckabee, and i dont. i just said that is one of the reasons why he is doing better and better in the polls, while ron paul remains pretty stagnant, even though he's raised a ton of money its obviously not enough.

Well, lets debate then. It truly baffles my mind that abortion is one of the main issues that people talk about. For one, constitutionally, the federal government BY LAW should have no authority to regulate abortion, heaven forbid the President (who btw, swears to uphold the Constitution when he takes the oath of office) actually does so.

i agree that abortion shouldnt be a main issue, but from what ive learned ron paul is against abortion, im pro abortion. but yeah this is not the main issue and shouldnt be either.

Whats your opinion of Iraq? Stay and kill another 650,000 people? Which BTW, is no inflated number, its from the Lancet, one of the most prestigious journals in the world.

Ive said it before and ill say it again, i was against the invasion from the beginning, but i realise that now that america has bombed the shit out of the country and basically threw it out in a civil war, a commitment must be made to the iraqi people. You cant just run away from it now cuz its hard like ron paul wants too, its going to be a catastrophe of great proportions with total civil war, and it will be a hideout for terrorists to launch new attacks against the western world. first the surge must end, then widthdraw atleast most of the troops.

Please debate me on the issues, this should be fun. (For a glimpse into the future if you chose to do so, see my owning of that idiot Tweak here.
http://www.musclemecca.com/showthre...on problem solved.[/QUOTE] impressive:uhoh2:

 

[Ironslave]

i didnt say i supported huckabee, and i dont. i just said that is one of the reasons why he is doing better and better in the polls, while ron paul remains pretty stagnant, even though he's raised a ton of money its obviously not enough.

Which goes to show the complete ignorance and idiocy of the voters, they vote for the guy who sounds good without even knowing what he stands for.

i agree that abortion shouldnt be a main issue, but from what ive learned ron paul is against abortion, im pro abortion. but yeah this is not the main issue and shouldnt be either.

So? He wants to leave it up to the states to decide, which is constitutionally what is supposed to be done. Pretty much every other republican is now copying this position exactly. Yes, personally he is against it, so what? It just goes to show he's a man who will follow and enforce the rule of law, rather than his own personal belief.

Ive said it before and ill say it again, i was against the invasion from the beginning, but i realise that now that america has bombed the shit out of the country and basically threw it out in a civil war, a commitment must be made to the iraqi people. You cant just run away from it now cuz its hard like ron paul wants too, its going to be a catastrophe of great proportions with total civil war, and it will be a hideout for terrorists to launch new attacks against the western world. first the surge must end, then widthdraw atleast most of the troops.

Is America's involvement really making things better? Hundreds of millions of dollars are being lost a day, both on spending over there, and money that goes missing. America's involvement just fueled a fire in a region that has been fighting with each other for centuries, no matter what America does, their involvement will not bring peace over there, its ludicrous to suggest that was even a true goal of the invasion. Literacy is down, health care is down, the whole place is just a mess and America is NOT making it better.

The "terrorists" nonsense is a crock of shit. Define terrorists. September 11th? 4,000 American civilians died that day, yet America kills hundreds of thousands, and they're not considered terrorists? Do you have any idea how many "terrorist" groups America has funded? This statement shows complete ignorance of history, look into the Soviet-Afghan war during the cold war, the overthrow of Nicaragua, installing a dictator in Iran (the Shah) over a democratically elected President, the Iran-Iraq war, Iran hostage crisis (how the hostages were freed) and MANY MANY others.

ok so just because tweak has another opinion than you on this subject, hes an idiot? dude, learn to respect other peoples opinions, ron paul is not the messiah u make him out to be, and if he'd actually win ill think u will soon find out. he wont have a chance getting through most of those ideas he's presenting.

Tweak is an idiot because instead of arguing and debating intelligently, he makes stupid idiotic statements "Ron Paul will ruin the economy", then completely ignores any evidence of logic (using sound currency, ending wars which cost billions, cutting wasteful spending), then he goes out and cherrypicks information by copy's and paste's someone else's post on another site (who was also completely and historically wrong). THAT is idiotic and willfully ignorant. Deep down, he, like yourself, must know that you have no knowledge of anything related to history, economics, or any subject that is relevant with this topic. Instead of learning, you will maintained stagnated in your positions, which are based purely out of hunches which were seeded by mainsteam media reports (America must stay in Iraq to help save it! America wants to make things great! Operation Iraqi Freedom!!)

Anything else I should own you on?

 

[Tech]

i didnt say i supported huckabee, and i dont. i just said that is one of the reasons why he is doing better and better in the polls, while ron paul remains pretty stagnant, even though he's raised a ton of money its obviously not enough.

which polls? the phone polls that don't even give Ron Paul's name as an option?

or the internet polls, which Ron Paul wins everytime.

 

[Ironslave]

Ron Paul supporters in Norway.

That is hilarious, maybe we got through to Bulkboy so much that he decided to take it to the streets and campaign

 

[Bulkboy]

Which goes to show the complete ignorance and idiocy of the voters, they vote for the guy who sounds good without even knowing what he stands for.

i think alot of people now know what ron paul stands for, but that doesent mean they agree with him. personally i found ron paul intriguing in the start, but as i learned more about him i just found i dont agree with him in most issues. Im a conservative, but im not that conservative, basically what his policy will lead to is a government crippled and without control over alot of important areas. Im traditionally for tax cuts, but what he represents is so dramatic that it just cant be done without cutting not just overseas but also dramatically spending at home, and in a country with crap healthcare, crap education and infrastructure falling down that is not the right thing to do. the federal government does have a responsibility in my opinion.

The economic liberalism he represents have been tried before, do u remember the stock market crash in the 30s? thats what happends when u let the government have no control whatsoever. Keynes theorys and a more active federal government is what saved the economy back then.

So? He wants to leave it up to the states to decide, which is constitutionally what is supposed to be done. Pretty much every other republican is now copying this position exactly. Yes, personally he is against it, so what? It just goes to show he's a man who will follow and enforce the rule of law, rather than his own personal belief.

saying that is up to the states seem more like a way to avoid loosing valuable voters to me. but anyway, abortion is not the main issue here. but once again i do have a problem with him being against it, because of my personal beliefs.

Is America's involvement really making things better? Hundreds of millions of dollars are being lost a day, both on spending over there, and money that goes missing. America's involvement just fueled a fire in a region that has been fighting with each other for centuries, no matter what America does, their involvement will not bring peace over there, its ludicrous to suggest that was even a true goal of the invasion. Literacy is down, health care is down, the whole place is just a mess and America is NOT making it better.

well, but u think running away from it will make things better? the surge is going well now, civillian casualties last month was an all time low, the war was managed badly in the start i admit that, but a better stragetgy has been put on the table and it is working. just giving up and leaving the iraqi people in the hands of chaos, civil war and basically making iraq a launcing platform for more terrorist attacks is NOT the right way to go. it was wrong to go in, but now that the mistake is made, one must correct the mistake by having a military presence there until the iraqis can defend their own nation.

The "terrorists" nonsense is a crock of shit. Define terrorists. September 11th? 4,000 American civilians died that day, yet America kills hundreds of thousands, and they're not considered terrorists? Do you have any idea how many "terrorist" groups America has funded? This statement shows complete ignorance of history, look into the Soviet-Afghan war during the cold war, the overthrow of Nicaragua, installing a dictator in Iran (the Shah) over a democratically elected President, the Iran-Iraq war, Iran hostage crisis (how the hostages were freed) and MANY MANY others.

oh so now you are denieing the term islamic terrorism as even being an actual problem? dude, think well through what has happened the last couple of years. Not just america has been attacked, but also spain, egypt, britain and bali. islamic terrorism is a fact, these are fanatics that has declared a crusade on the western world, and not responding to that threat would be to dig our heads down in the sand. I know that americas foreign policy through the course of history is full of flaws, as every empire america is also looking out for its interessts, but u cant compare americas support to afghanistan in order to stop soviet from unjustifiably taking over their country to a group of people determined to kill as many civillians as possible in the name of Allah.

u cant just refer to mistakes of the past and use that as an excuse to not respond to present threats. that is what i call ignorance. i think america has a responsibility to play on the global arena, i want US troops in europe, cuz now russia is arming again, if ron paul is elected these troops will leave, same with the troops in korea, one can protest against american military presence as much as one want, but the alternative could be much worse...



T

weak is an idiot because instead of arguing and debating intelligently, he makes stupid idiotic statements "Ron Paul will ruin the economy", then completely ignores any evidence of logic (using sound currency, ending wars which cost billions, cutting wasteful spending), then he goes out and cherrypicks information by copy's and paste's someone else's post on another site (who was also completely and historically wrong). THAT is idiotic and willfully ignorant. Deep down, he, like yourself, must know that you have no knowledge of anything related to history, economics, or any subject that is relevant with this topic. Instead of learning, you will maintained stagnated in your positions, which are based purely out of hunches which were seeded by mainsteam media reports (America must stay in Iraq to help save it! America wants to make things great! Operation Iraqi Freedom!!)

Anything else I should own you on?

owning me? i dont see how u can even say that before i have gotten the time to reply

anyway, what u do here is presenting it as very black and white. either you are a ron paul supporter, OR u are a war mongering, ignorant uninformed fool is what i get from u. you are saying that tweak and myself obviously have no knowledge about politics, economy and history basically because we dont share ur political platform. Thats not good debating, its more self ownage from your side. you do not succeed in any degree to convince me even the slightest bit about your views, much because of the way u present them. and quite frankly i think alot of others reading your posts will feel the same way.

alot of people yield for change, that however doesent mean that ron paul automatically qualifies as the right person. its a new way, but i dont think its a right or responsible way to go.

a ton of money obviously havent boosted him in the polls like everyone believed, and im glad that his fanbase obviously is for specially interested people and not a mainstream movement, therefore he will have no chance of winning.

 

[Bulkboy]

which polls? the phone polls that don't even give Ron Paul's name as an option?

or the internet polls, which Ron Paul wins everytime.

i think its pretty obvious that ron paul's nationwide support is pretty damn low. over here in norway he havent once been mentioned on tv, radio or anything, huckabee though has been mentioned several times. its a reason for that...

 

[Tech]

people that defend the Iraq war make me wanna headbutt a wall.

 

[Tech]

anyone else think the idea of the Univision debate is stupid. a presidential debate in Spanish.

considering most people watching probably can't even vote, I think it's a little insulting to English speaking citizens.

 

[Braaq]

anyone else think the idea of the Univision debate is stupid. a presidential debate in Spanish.

considering most people watching probably can't even vote, I think it's a little insulting to English speaking citizens.

I think that if you do not speak english you should not be an American citizen. Also, dont people have to take an english equivalency exam when they become a citizen?

 

[Ironslave]

i think alot of people now know what ron paul stands for, but that doesent mean they agree with him. personally i found ron paul intriguing in the start, but as i learned more about him i just found i dont agree with him in most issues. Im a conservative, but im not that conservative, basically what his policy will lead to is a government crippled and without control over alot of important areas. Im traditionally for tax cuts, but what he represents is so dramatic that it just cant be done without cutting not just overseas but also dramatically spending at home, and in a country with crap healthcare, crap education and infrastructure falling down that is not the right thing to do. the federal government does have a responsibility in my opinion.

Completely wrong. Dropping the income tax only requires government cut back spending to the levels it did in the year 2000. Do you know the United States has troops in something like 130 out of the 200 country's in the world? You still have many other taxes, just not the one that takes money off every paycheck you earn. So before we discuss Iraq, if the US does need more money for healthcare and education, wouldn't it make sense to cut out the hundreds of millions of dollars spent a day there?

The economic liberalism he represents have been tried before, do u remember the stock market crash in the 30s? thats what happends when u let the government have no control whatsoever. Keynes theorys and a more active federal government is what saved the economy back then.

Again, wrong. For one, where on earth are you getting the nonsense "the government had no control whatsoever." That sentence is completely wrong. The Fed was put into place in 1913, they had increased the monetary supply by about 60% during the 20's, and they were not sticking to the gold standard they were intended to. Furthermore, this is completely 100% ignoring the entire issue which is currently devaluing the dollar, a central bank controlling the money supply and creating money "outta nowhere" with nothing to back it up. Ron Paul is for sound currency to back up funds, and competing currencies, ie gold and silver. Besides, do you have any idea how much control the government has over the monetary supply now? Do you know what a central bank is?

Furthermore, again, this is completely ignoring the disastrous effect the wasteful spending of wars is having the economy (which, you will later defend keeping troops in the war.)

saying that is up to the states seem more like a way to avoid loosing valuable voters to me. but anyway, abortion is not the main issue here. but once again i do have a problem with him being against it, because of my personal beliefs.

Heaven forbid we elect a President who actually upholds the law of the Constitution.

Who gives a shit, anybody who even mentions the word "abortion" as a deciding factor in the election is a complete idiot. Solution, don't get pregnant.

well, but u think running away from it will make things better? the surge is going well now, civillian casualties last month was an all time low, the war was managed badly in the start i admit that, but a better stragetgy has been put on the table and it is working. just giving up and leaving the iraqi people in the hands of chaos, civil war and basically making iraq a launcing platform for more terrorist attacks is NOT the right way to go. it was wrong to go in, but now that the mistake is made, one must correct the mistake by having a military presence there until the iraqis can defend their own nation.

At an all time low for what? Since the invasion? 844 civilians were STILL killed in September 07, sure, its a lot less than 2000 killed in January of that year, big deal. Im going to say its a pretty safe bet that this number was still much lower before the invasion. Another study in the Journal of the Lancet found that civilians were 2.5 as likely to die after the war, than before it.


The notion that "leaving it till the Iraqi people can defend their nation" is completely ignorant. Defend it from who, the terrorists who killed 650,000 of them? (Bush administration). Why should America be the ones to police the world? Why should more Americans die over there? Why should America spend hundreds of millions of dollars there every day? Heaven forbid it be spent on health care or education. It's probably fair to say that the American invasion in this war alone has easily killed 10x more people than all the "terrorist" acts ever carried out combined.

Do you think the war is making more "terrorists" or less? If people invaded your country, drop bombs and killing your family, would you be pretty pissed off and fight back? So which one is the terrorist? This war is just making America more hated around the world, and giving people more of a reason to want to kill them. What makes you think that America's presence is "preventing it from chaos" when every statistic as far as death counts, health care, education has shown to all be much worse since before the Invasion.

oh so now you are denieing the term islamic terrorism as even being an actual problem? dude, think well through what has happened the last couple of years. Not just america has been attacked, but also spain, egypt, britain and bali. islamic terrorism is a fact, these are fanatics that has declared a crusade on the western world, and not responding to that threat would be to dig our heads down in the sand. I know that americas foreign policy through the course of history is full of flaws, as every empire america is also looking out for its interessts, but u cant compare americas support to afghanistan in order to stop soviet from unjustifiably taking over their country to a group of people determined to kill as many civillians as possible in the name of Allah.

Why do they hate the western world? Do they just kill for shits and giggles? Provide evidence. Does the fact the western world (Americans, Brits mainly) has killed many times more of their people count for anything? You're just media brainwashed. There have been countless times America has bombed an entire mosque, only to say "oops." If by chance a "terrorist" group bombed an entire church on a Sunday morning in America, it would probably be a launching pad into nuclear strikes. Yet, America does it, and nobody cares.

u cant just refer to mistakes of the past and use that as an excuse to not respond to present threats. that is what i call ignorance. i think america has a responsibility to play on the global arena, i want US troops in europe, cuz now russia is arming again, if ron paul is elected these troops will leave, same with the troops in korea, one can protest against american military presence as much as one want, but the alternative could be much worse...

Why is it worse? Russia had thousands of Nukes when Kennedy was in office, and look how he handled that. Now they're worried about a third world country with no army, navy or anything getting ONE? Give me a fucking break. If any country (Russia, Iran, North Korea) was stupid enough to preemptively attack America, they'd be wiped off the planet with the push of a button. Why the fuck can't you get past the fact that American presence is NOT keeping things peaceful.

owning me? i dont see how u can even say that before i have gotten the time to reply

It didn't matter, I knew if you did reply it would get worse

anyway, what u do here is presenting it as very black and white. either you are a ron paul supporter

Either I'm a Ron Paul supporter? That's even a question? Do a search on the name "Ron Paul" at Mecca and see when the first posts of him were mentioned, and by who.

OR u are a war mongering, ignorant uninformed fool is what i get from u.

bwhahaha, that has to be among the dumbest things I've ever read. War mongering? I'm the one frantically protesting against the war, you're the one supporting it. Its pretty clear who is ignorant, and who isn't.

you are saying that tweak and myself obviously have no knowledge about politics, economy and history basically because we dont share ur political platform. Thats not good debating, its more self ownage from your side. you do not succeed in any degree to convince me even the slightest bit about your views, much because of the way u present them. and quite frankly i think alot of others reading your posts will feel the same way.

No, sharing a different political platform is fine. But completely ignoring the major points and cherry picking little technicalities or using open ended hypothetical statements is NOT. Read Tweak's posts in that thread, find one intelligent thing he said. Similar to this, if Ron Paul is wrong about the economy, address his major points about what is fucking up the economy now. Find ONE other candidate who is even mentioning anything wrong with the economy.

a ton of money obviously havent boosted him in the polls like everyone believed, and im glad that his fanbase obviously is for specially interested people and not a mainstream movement, therefore he will have no chance of winning.

You have no idea how corrupt the mainstream media is. They want Rudy vs. Hilary, they aren't putting Ron Paul's name on the ballots, and ignoring him at the debates. Meanwhile he has won more straw polls than every other candidate combined. We'll see how things turn out when Primary season rolls around.

 

[Tech]

I think that if you do not speak english you should not be an American citizen. Also, dont people have to take an english equivalency exam when they become a citizen?

thats what I think.

it seems like common sense and common courtesy to at least learn to speak the native language of the country you live in.

 

[Ironslave]

New Tea Party video

 

[Braaq]

My Uncle was just giving me shit for wanting to vote for Ron Paul and convincing my bro to vote for him. He gave me the speech about how he has no chance of winning and blah blah.... , pissed me off.
But then when he told me he we going to vote for Giuliani... I laughed at him ... in his face pointing a finger at him and started listing all the reasons NOT to vote for Giuliani.

 

[Ironslave]

My Uncle was just giving me shit for wanting to vote for Ron Paul and convincing my bro to vote for him. He gave me the speech about how he has no chance of winning and blah blah.... , pissed me off.
But then when he told me he we going to vote for Giuliani... I laughed at him ... in his face pointing a finger at him and started listing all the reasons NOT to vote for Giuliani.

What'd your Uncle say? Does he know Giuliani married his 2nd cousin?

 

[Braaq]

What'd your Uncle say? Does he know Giuliani married his 2nd cousin?

I am not sure, his only answer was that he has more of a chance of winning and that he is the only one who promised to not raise any taxes. Also he doesnt think that we should pull out of Iraq and that we are the stabilizing force of the world and have to be in all those countries. So I set him straight... hopefully.

Then he wouldnt let me and my bro have a cookie cause we were voting for Ron Paul.... ......

 

[Flex]

a ton of money obviously havent boosted him in the polls like everyone believed, and im glad that his fanbase obviously is for specially interested people and not a mainstream movement, therefore he will have no chance of winning.

I have some respect for you bulkboy, just for the fact that you don't sit on your ass ignoring American politics, but you are still ignorant. I could care less that you don't support Ron Paul, but most of these points by you in the last couple pages are beyond terrible.

Let's take a look at your arguments:



"Ron Paul won't win, so he's not a good canidate!"

So I guess you always judge quality by the mainstream? Do you run out and buy top albums on billboard chart each week? Backstreet boys, N'sync, Hanson, and don't forget that gangsta 50 cent. He be cool because he gotz shot and be still alive! Then you sit around watching Dancing with the Stars, American Idol, and Desperate Housewives, because after all...they are the mainstream television shows.


"The money didn't help Ron Paul"

Besides the fact that he's had the money for only a month, his support has pretty much doubled. Some national polls are showing him with 8% in the GOP. Now let's take into consideration that most people in the Republican party are still voting by name recognition, hence the only reason Giuliani is first nationally. Moreover, Ron Paul's name isn't mentioned in the biased phone polls, so I find it incredible that Ron even stands 8%. Look at Barack Obama, he's far behind Hillary in national polls but is going to dominate in the key states. National polls are NOTHING, especially this early in the election process, so your points are shit.


"Most peole know his policies and arn't voting for him"

15% of people who voted in the 2004 election know that Ron Paul wants out of Iraq. That is a miniscule number, and is by far Ron Paul's most popular policy. You have any clue how many people know his plans about monetary policy? a very very small amount. During every MAINSTREAM debate, Ron Paul is ignored, he is never able to say much more than which departments he'd like to abolish. In result, most people think he's some kook isolationist that wants to move us back to the stone age. Now if Paul was given ten minutes to give his reasons to rid of these departments, leave the Iraq war, and everyone voting next year were to tune in. Ron Paul would be at least 80% nationwide as of right now.


"You are only owning yourself Ironslave and I think others would agree with me"

I highly doubt that. By reading the entire debate all I hear from Ironslave is points backed by history and reason. You on the other hand, practically said history is pointless. Have you ever taken debating lessons by O'Reilly by chance? At first I wanted you to debate, but if you're going to deny the fact that American influences these terrorist acts over seas, then you just need to stop typing. It's not that you're ignorant if you don't support Ron Paul, it's the fact that you're ignorant if you debate similar to a sheep watching FoxNews religiously. There's a reason very few countries in the world agree with America on the Iraq war.

 

[Flex]

My Uncle was just giving me shit for wanting to vote for Ron Paul and convincing my bro to vote for him. He gave me the speech about how he has no chance of winning and blah blah.... , pissed me off.
But then when he told me he we going to vote for Giuliani... I laughed at him ... in his face pointing a finger at him and started listing all the reasons NOT to vote for Giuliani.

It's incredible that people can't at least wait until the primaries before they use the "he can't win" bullshit. Things are looking very well in Iowa, much better than I expected. A top 3 placing in Iowa, gives Ron a roller coaster ride right through the primaries to the top. Even if he didn't place in the top 3, he's one of the favorites in New Hampshire

 

[Flex]

i didnt say i supported huckabee, and i dont.

Ironslave never said that you do

i just said that is one of the reasons why he is doing better and better in the polls, while ron paul remains pretty stagnant, even though he's raised a ton of money its obviously not enough.

First off, it's halarious that you take the polls that serious. Second, you don't know that it's not enough. Just wait until the primaries, you may be very surprised. Besides, Huckabee only had such a huge rise because the majority of Christians are morons and vote based on the wrong reasons.

Paul will probably get 3rd or better in Iowa, even though it's his worst key state. The two front runners for this state is Mitt and Huck. Romney will be attacking Huckabee for the rest of the month, which will lead to a decline to the both of them. If this is the case and the weather is bad enough on the third, Ron Paul might take first. But, obviously i'm not expecting first.

 

[high_five]

the possible bad weather and the fact that there is a bcs bowl game(orange bowl) on the 3rd of january only helps ron. his supporters will show up no matter how bad the weather.

 

[Braaq]

the possible bad weather and the fact that there is a bcs bowl game(orange bowl) on the 3rd of january only helps ron. his supporters will show up no matter how bad the weather.

Good lets hope it snows in all the Giuliani, Romney, and Huckabee supporters... only them though. Lets hope it doesnt snow only at the RP supporters houses...
On a seriuos note, your right, nothing will keep me from voting so lets hope that that does happen.