The end of the world!!!!

[Skeptic]

fair call mate, i surely never intended to offend anyone. I enjoy a debate, and this is probably the first religious debate ive had where its stayed civil lol. Ive enjoyed our conversation man, and as ive said before each to their own

 

[Braaq]

one thing that has always bothered me.

To see God and know there is a heaven, you must be dead first...right?


So....how do humans seem to know so much about the afterlife and God?

We dont, its the human race creating something to make us feel better that this is all we have. A recent poll found that more people believe in heaven than people that are well off.. why is that? Because they desperately want to believe that there is something after their mediocre lives. That is fine by me if people have faith in something that gives them hope to press on, but its not logical. All BigBen has stated below is what his faith makes him believe, but there is nothing proving any of it but faith. Faith is fine, but it holds no water to those that truely think logically.
If believing in a supernatural diety that has yet to be proven and is just a tradition passed from our ancestors when science was not around to explain how things work, that is fine but so far I have not heard a single arguement that proven anything. If there is a God, the word of God is lost in man, and we do not truely understand him/her enough to even comprehend. All we make are assumptions and beliefs in something we want so desperately to be true.

 

[Mygeeto]

God is exsistance, and God is timeless always exsisting their is no time for God he exsists at all times at all times, God sees all. God always was, their was no need for His creation b/c their was never an exsistance without God.

who's to say thats not the same case with all the matter that the universe was made out of before the big bang?

 

[SerbMarko]

one thing that has always bothered me.

To see God and know there is a heaven, you must be dead first...right?


So....how do humans seem to know so much about the afterlife and God?

conviction and faith.. it's something that just is impossible to describe in human terms.. unfortunately many people will not experience this..

 

[SerbMarko]

Very good points mate

But i dont agree with god being flawless... god is contradictory, got is unreasonably wrathful. It is not until the New testament that god is loving and all. The bible is unreasonable, so to say 'people who look past their ego need look no further than the bible' is somewhat contradictory to you saying everyone can believe in whatever they want.

By saying this, yes you allow people to believe what they want, but you also will treat everyone who thinks different from you condesendingly. You will treat them like you are better than them... despite the fact that they are allowed to believe what they want.

1. Hell was originally created for Satan and his angels. In the future it will contain those who join Satan in rejecting God. If you reject God's provision for the forgiveness of your sins, then you will join the Devil who rejected God from the beginning.
2. Could you believe in a God who would become a human, suffer at the hands of humans, and be killed by them, all so that His death could be the payment for their sins? That is extremely loving. God is saving people who deserve to go to Hell - and we all deserve that. Remember that the same God that sends people to Hell also died for them. If they reject what God has provided, then what is God left to do? He would have to judge them.
3. Whether you believe in something or not does not change the fact of its existence. Jesus spoke often of Hell (Matt. 25:41-46; Mark 9:47-48; Luke 16:19-31), and warned us so we would not go there. Would you say Jesus didn't know what He was talking about?
4. Are you implying that it is unjust for God to send people to hell? If so, then you accuse God of injustice. Sin is wrong and it must be punished. What would you have God do to those who oppose Him and do evil? Do you want Him to ignore that which is wrong? Do you want Him to turn His head and not be holy and righteous?

 

[SerbMarko]

who's to say thats not the same case with all the matter that the universe was made out of before the big bang?

anything that has a begins must have an end, but this was not Gods intention, the only reason we must die is due to our flaw, which in turn is sin.. sin must be punished by death, since all flesh are born of sin, all flesh must pay the price (death) physically speaking, by the time we are born, we are already dying.. but the creator of creation does no require a beginning due to the fact that there would be no such thing as creation if it were not for the creator.. wow thats a tongue twister.. here are some biblical references.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Genesis 1:1)

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. (Genesis 1:3)

And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. (Genesis 1:7)

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:11)

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. (Genesis 1:16)

And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:21)

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:25)

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1:27)

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Genesis 1:31)

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made the earth and the heavens, (Genesis 2:4)

And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Genesis 2:7)

And Jehovah God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. (Genesis 2:8)

And out of the ground made Jehovah God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. (Genesis 2:9)

And out of the ground Jehovah God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. (Genesis 2:19)

And the rib, which Jehovah God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. (Genesis 2:22)

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (Genesis 3:1)

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; (Genesis 5:1)

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; (Genesis 5:1)

And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. (Genesis 6:6)

And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (Genesis 6:7)

Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. (Genesis 9:6)

And Jehovah said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I Jehovah? (Exodus 4:11)

For in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore Jehovah blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:11)

It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. (Exodus 31:17)

And Hezekiah prayed before Jehovah, and said, O Jehovah God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth. (2 Kings 19:15)

For all the gods of the people are idols: but Jehovah made the heavens. (1 Chronicles 16:26)

Huram said moreover, Blessed be Jehovah God of Israel, that made heaven and earth, who hath given to David the king a wise son, endued with prudence and understanding, that might build an house for Jehovah, and an house for his kingdom. (2 Chronicles 2:12)

Thou, even thou, art Jehovah alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee. (Nehemiah 9:6)

The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. (Job 33:4)

By the word of Jehovah were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. (Psalms 33:6)

Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. (Psalms 90:2)

For all the gods of the nations are idols: but Jehovah made the heavens. (Psalms 96:5)

Ye are blessed of Jehovah which made heaven and earth. (Psalms 115:15)

My help cometh from Jehovah, which made heaven and earth. (Psalms 121:2)

Our help is in the name of Jehovah, who made heaven and earth. (Psalms 124:8)

Jehovah that made heaven and earth bless thee out of Zion. (Psalms 134:3)

O Jehovah of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth. (Isaiah 37:16)

Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, Jehovah, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding. (Isaiah 40:28)

Thus saith God Jehovah, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: (Isaiah 42:5)

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. (Isaiah 43:7)

Thus saith Jehovah, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am Jehovah that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; (Isaiah 44:24)

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I Jehovah do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7)

I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. (Isaiah 45:12)

For thus saith Jehovah that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am Jehovah; and there is none else. (Isaiah 45:18)

Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. (Isaiah 54:16)

Ah Lord Jehovah! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee: (Jeremiah 32:17)

For, lo, he that formeth the mountains, and createth the wind, and declareth unto man what is his thought, that maketh the morning darkness, and treadeth upon the high places of the earth, Jehovah, The God of hosts, is his name. (Amos 4:13)

And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear Jehovah, the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land. (Jonah 1:9)

The burden of the word of Jehovah for Israel, saith Jehovah, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. (Zechariah 12:1)

Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? (Malachi 2:10)

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (Mark 10:6)

For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. (Mark 13:19)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3)

And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: (Acts 4:24)

And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: (Acts 14:15)

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; (Acts 17:24)

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (Ephesians 3:9)

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.(Colossians 1:16-17)

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. (Hebrews 11:3)

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. (Revelation 4:11)

And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: (Revelation 10:6)

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. (Revelation 14:7)

p.s. Jehovah is an English reading of יְהֹוָה, the most frequent vocalized version of the Tetragrammaton, the name of God in the Hebrew Bible as vocalized by the Masoretes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah

im just posting this so you don't mix me up with a Jehova's (cult) witness.

 

[Ironslave]

Come on Serb, you didn't even address all the biblical contradictions I posted earlier. Just because "the bible says it" doesn't make it true.

You're just regurgitating what the bible says.


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[alex]

1. Hell was originally created for Satan and his angels. In the future it will contain those who join Satan in rejecting God.

count me in

2. Could you believe in a God who would become a human, suffer at the hands of humans, and be killed by them, all so that His death could be the payment for their sins? That is extremely lame

fixed

Whether you believe in something or not does not change the fact of its existence. Jesus spoke often of Hell (Matt. 25:41-46; Mark 9:47-48; Luke 16:19-31), and warned us so we would not go there. Would you say Jesus didn't know what He was talking about?

i would say he never existed.

4. Are you implying that it is unjust for God to send people to hell? If so, then you accuse God of injustice. Sin is wrong and it must be punished. What would you have God do to those who oppose Him and do evil? Do you want Him to ignore that which is wrong? Do you want Him to turn His head and not be holy and righteous?

thats exactly what he is doing.the rich and strong get all the goods and weak\poor die from starvation.I deny your god but in my life i haven't hurt anyone and i don't intend to so that means i am going to hell like Hitler?Is that fair?Either you curse either you are responsible for the killing of 50million people you get the same punishment?or is Hitlers fire going to be hotter than mine?

religions are ridiculous my friend and i can understand a taliban believing in god.he lives in one of the shittiest country's of the world and he has airplanes and helicopters above his head dropping fire.No hope no tomorrow for him.But i cant understand
how people like you and others that live in the most developed country's in the world believe in such things.its your wright if you want to but i just don't understand it.

i wont be reading your last post towards "mygeeto" because its very long and to much christianity may be hazardous towards my logic perception.

be realistic buddy.

 

[SerbMarko]

Come on Serb, you didn't even address all the biblical contradictions I posted earlier. Just because "the bible says it" doesn't make it true.

You're just regurgitating what the bible says.

Bible difficulties, or apparent Bible contradictions, exist. The opponents of Christianity often use them in their attempts to discredit Christianity. Sometimes these attacks undermine the faith of Christians who either don't understand the issues or don't have the resources to deal with them.
Opponents of Christianity will cite what they consider a Bible contradiction or difficulty by comparing one verse to another (or more) that seems to disagree with the first. In doing this, several verses are often referenced as being contradictory or problematic. Therefore, to make this section of CARM easy to use, it is arranged by verse for easy lookup. Since many of the same "difficulties" deal with one verse in opposition to another or even several others, I have listed all the verses addressed in the same answer. This makes the initial list look larger than it really is. For example, how many animals did Noah bring into the ark? Genesis 6:19-20 says two while Gen. 7:2-3 mentions seven. Therefore, both verses are listed and both links point to the same answer.

The Originals are Inspired, not the copies.

What a lot of Christians don't know is that the autographs (original writings) are inspired, not the copies. The autographs are the original writings, the original documents penned by the biblical writers. The copies are copies of inspired documents. The copies are not themselves "inspired"; that is, they have no guarantee of being 100% textually pure. But don't worry, the Bible manuscripts are 98.5% textually pure and only are very small amount of information is in question because we have repetitive facts, instructions, and information found elsewhere in the Bible. Nevertheless, through the copying method over the years, various textual problems have arisen. Following is a list of the types of errors that have occurred in copying the manuscripts. I've used English as examples instead of going into the original languages for examples.

*

Dittography - Writing twice what should have been written once.
o

A good example would be writing "latter" instead of "later." "Latter" means nearest the end. "Later" means after something else.
*

Fission - Improperly dividing one word into two words.
o

Example: "nowhere" into "now here."
*

Fusion - Combining the last letter of one word with the first letter of the next word.
o

"Look it is there in the cabinet... or Look it is therein the cabinet."
*

Haplography - Writing once what should have been written twice.
o

A good example would be "later" instead of "latter." "Later" means after something else. "Latter" means nearest the end.
*

Homophony - Writing a word with a different meaning for another word when both words have the exact same pronunciation.
o

Meat and meet have the exact same sound but different meanings. Also, there and their and they're are another example.
*

Metathesis - An improper exchange in the order of letters.
o

Instead of writing "mast," someone writes "mats," or "cast" and cats."

Does this mean we cannot trust the Bible?

Does this mean that the Bible we hold in our hand is not inspired? Not at all. Inspiration comes from God and when He inspired the Bible, it was perfect. Our copies of the original documents are not perfect, but they are very close to being so. The critics often erringly assume that even the copies are supposed to be perfect. But when we point out that God never said the copies would be perfect, they then ask how can the Bible be trusted at all? Quite simply, it is redundant in its facts and information and the amount of material that has any variation at all is so minute compared to the whole Bible that the Bible is considered to be almost 100% accurately copied. Furthermore, the copyist errors present no problems doctrinally.
Still, some will say that since there are, for example, copyist errors then we must throw out the entire Bible. But this argument is very week. Are we to throw out a book science text book because there is a misspelled word or two in it? Does this mean that the whole book cannot be trusted? Of course not. Furthermore, compared to other ancient documents, the New Testament, for example, has far more textual evidence in its favor than any other ancient writing. Please consider the chart below.
Author When Written Earliest Copy Time Span No. of Copies
Homer (Iliad) 900 BC 400 BC 500 years 643
Ceasar (The Gallic Wars) 100 - 44 BC 900 AD 1,000 years 10
Plato (Tetralogies) 427 - 347 BC 900 AD 1,200 years 7
Aristotle 384 - 322 BC 1,100 AD 1,400 years 49
Herodotus (History) 480 - 425 BC 900 AD 1,300 years 8
Euripedes 480 - 406 BC 1,100 AD 1,500 years 9
New Testament 50 - 90 A.D. 130 AD
30 years 24,000

This chart was adapted from charts in Evidence that Demands a Verdict, by Josh McDowell, 1979, pages 42 and 43.

If the Bible cannot be trusted as being reliable because it has only a small percentage of copyist errors, then neither can the above documents be trusted that have far less textual support. In other rods, the critics, to be consistent, would have to reject the Iliad, The Gallic Wars, Plato's Tetralogies, Aristotle's works, Hoerodetus' history, and Euripedes' writings. Are the critics willing to disregard all those writings -- which are far less well preserved -- if they throw out the Bible as being reliable? They should if they are fair in how they apply their criticism. But, since basically no one discards those writings as being so bad they can't be trusted, why would anyone apply the double standard to the Bible . . . unless they have an agenda.
We can see that the Bible is an ancient document that has withstood thousands of years of transmission with remarkable accuracy and clarity, far more so than the great works of old listed in the chart above. We can trust it to be what it says it is: the word of God.

 

[jornT]

Hahaha, let's see, let's make atom boms that are 98,5% correct, to have it explode in our own face when we try to launch it.

 

[high_five]

good point skeptic. the bible is extremely contradictory like Ironslave depicted in one of his earlier posts in this thread.

 

[Tech]

 

[high_five]

high five

 

[Skeptic]

1. Hell was originally created for Satan and his angels. In the future it will contain those who join Satan in rejecting God. If you reject God's provision for the forgiveness of your sins, then you will join the Devil who rejected God from the beginning.
2. Could you believe in a God who would become a human, suffer at the hands of humans, and be killed by them, all so that His death could be the payment for their sins? That is extremely loving. God is saving people who deserve to go to Hell - and we all deserve that. Remember that the same God that sends people to Hell also died for them. If they reject what God has provided, then what is God left to do? He would have to judge them.
3. Whether you believe in something or not does not change the fact of its existence. Jesus spoke often of Hell (Matt. 25:41-46; Mark 9:47-48; Luke 16:19-31), and warned us so we would not go there. Would you say Jesus didn't know what He was talking about?
4. Are you implying that it is unjust for God to send people to hell? If so, then you accuse God of injustice. Sin is wrong and it must be punished. What would you have God do to those who oppose Him and do evil? Do you want Him to ignore that which is wrong? Do you want Him to turn His head and not be holy and righteous?

1. If thats the case man, then bring on hell apparently its where all the fun people go

2. I believe there once was a person named jesus, but no i dont believe in the miracles and whatnot.

3. dont even need to reply to this one

4. 1ST where did this talk of hell come from? no one brought it up. So by what you say, if i enjoy anal sex with my girlfriend... that is a sin and i deserve to be punished by being sent to hell? yeah no thanks buddy, i dont believe in a heaven or hell. I dont need any of that book to be happy... i prefer to be debaucherous... i revel in it.

I live in the here and now, what happens to me after i die is of no importance to me. I do not need to believe in an afterlife or a god for me to live a fullfilling life now...

 

[high_five]

The thing that pisses me off is when religious people say that you can't be a happy or moral person without faith or belief in god. That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[SerbMarko]

The thing that pisses me off is when religious people say that you can't be a happy or moral person without faith or belief in god. That makes no sense whatsoever.

i believe your statement is wrong, maybe some so called "religious" people make this claim, but bible believing Christians actually know that the unbeliever will actually have a better life here on earth.. then the believer.

According to these Scripture passages, God's people, Christians, should always feel somewhat out of place in this world. They ought to feel like strangers, pilgrims, aliens, like "ducks out of water," out of their proper environment. The Psalmist said, "I am a stranger on earth" (Psalm 119:19a). The phrase, "wherever I lodge," in verse 54, literally means: "in my temporary house." According to Hebrews 11, the "heroes of the faith" "admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth" (verse 13). Peter describes his Christian readers as "aliens and strangers in the world."

As strangers in the world, we are disturbed by many things. Our own mortality can be distressing. Children grow up and parents grow old. In the countryside, one can see many abandoned farm places. At one time the houses were probably dream homes, but are now dilapidated and the people are long gone. If you have not seen the friends and acquaintances of your youth lately, it might surprise you to see that they now have gray hair. It reminds us that we are growing older, and that life is going by rapidly. Also distressing is the fact that bad things happen to basically good people, to God's people. There was a fine Christian woman, who was very active in her church. Once she took her son's paper route while he was at a Cadet camp-out. Somewhere along the line she fell, severely damaging her ankle. In fact, later she ended up on crutches. Although in considerable pain, she wanted to finish the route before going to the doctor. To save a few agonizing steps, she hobbled across a lawn. Halfway across, the door opened and an angry voice shouted: "What's the matter with you, walking on the grass? Someone your age ought to know better."

She saw some humor in that later. Other things that happen to us are no laughing matter; not now, not ever. They are downright distressing or discouraging, and remind us of how vulnerable we really are.

The Psalmist was well aware of his weakness and frailty. In the Psalms we read of both high and low points in the life of faith. Like the Psalmist, there are times when, spiritually speaking, we feel like we could "soar with the eagles." A short time later, however, we seem to be waddling around like penguins. Our own instability can be distressing.

Something that ought to distress us is when God is ignored or dishonored. The Psalmist said: "Indignation grips me because of the wicked, who have forsaken your law" (119:53). When God's law is broken, people get hurt, God is offended, and society suffers the consequences.

Whether we observe it or experience it, we know that life is simply unfair. For example, God's good gifts are not evenly distributed. Professional athletes earn far more than farmers, although farmers' work is far more important. Athletes merely amuse us; farmers actually feed us. Injustice occurs every day, in all aspects of human life. The problems of the world seem so overwhelming that we are tempted to just throw up our hands in despair.

But strangers in the world are not alone in the world. In one Bible version, Psalm 119:49-56 is entitled: "God's Word is my comfort and guide whatever the circumstances." The Psalmist wrote, "My comfort in my suffering is this: your promise preserves my life" (119:50). "I remember your ancient laws, O Lord, and I find comfort in them" (verse 52). He found comfort not only in Scripture, but in Scripture's Author: "You have given me hope" (verse 49).

A Christian author once said: "Life is unfair. Get over it!" His point was that in an imperfect world filled with imperfect people problems are inevitable, so don't expect too much. While our life's "book" will certainly have a happy ending, there is some sadness on almost every page.

Children soon discover that life isn't fair. There are times in your lives when bruised knees or broken dreams have brought tears to your eyes. You have probably experienced how some children and older people can be downright nasty or unkind. Maybe you yourselves said or did something that made you feel bad, that gave you a guilty conscience. Life simply isn't fair. Some people have great beauty or brains, health or wealth, while our portion seems rather small. Diseases and accidents happen to both believers and unbelievers. The Bible reminds us that while life may be unfair at times and people might be unkind,

God is always just and loving.

Peter reminds his readers that they are "God's elect, strangers in the world...who have been chosen" (I Peter 1:1, 2). Being God's chosen people does not keep us from life's storms, but it is our security in life's storms. Another Psalmist reminds us that "God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble." When we are in the midst of a "storm," we usually ask God to calm it. Until he does, we may pray: "Lord, keep me afloat during this storm." The sea around us might be raging but in our hearts there can be the peace of God.

Psalm 4 says: "Know that the Lord has set apart the godly for himself; the Lord will hear when I call to him" (verse 3). Children, young people, and adults need to know that they are children of God. The awareness of God's presence helped Jacob on his way (Genesis 28:12ff). Once he was alone under the stars, running for his life, when he saw a stairway with angels on it. He woke up and said, "Surely the Lord is in this place, and I was not aware of it.... How awesome is this place!" Then he continued his journey.

If only we could live each moment of every day with that awareness, thinking: "Surely the Lord is in this place and in my life. Because of that, How awesome is this place, and how awesome is life itself and eternal life!" Even though you might feel out of place at times, feel as though you don't belong, you do belong to your Savior.

Because you belong to him, live for him. Peter writes: "I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul" (I Peter 2:11). Abstaining is not a very popular concept. Yet young and older people need to abstain from the sinful desires that war against our souls. Parents, teachers or pastors might say it, too, but first of all it is your God, your Savior, who says: "Abstain from sinful desires." He does not want us to lose the battle for our souls.

It is hard enough to abstain from sinful words and actions, how can we abstain from sinful desires? Perhaps we can't keep inappropriate thoughts from crossing our minds from time to time, but we can keep them from staying there. We can't prevent them from using the road, but we can put up "No Parking" signs, and we can enforce that rule.

Peter urges us to live good lives among those who don't believe (I Peter 2:12). Many people are concerned about treasures on earth, but Christians desire spiritual riches. Christians are thankful for what they do have, not angry or bitter about what they do not have. Christians confess and repent of their faults, but are not obsessed with them. They know that they have physical, mental, emotional, financial limitations. They accept God's love and forgiveness, and do their best.

A man once claimed that he was a "war baby," that his parents had taken one look at him and started fighting. Like him, everyone one of us has limitations, whether real or imagined, limitations that we have to live with. The good news is that God loves us!

Hopefully we, God's children, never waste our time wishing for things that others have, or wishing that we were more beautiful, athletic or intelligent than we are. Hopefully we realize how beautiful and special we are in the eyes of God and in the eyes of those who love us. Hopefully we enjoy ourselves, our lives, our Lord, and develop the unique gifts he has given us. Hopefully we seek first God's kingdom and God's will for our lives. Hopefully we will be the best that we can be, for God's glory and for our own good.

Though we travel as strangers or temporary residents, the Lord wants us to do good along the way, and to promote the well-being of church and society. The pilgrim Abraham was a great man of faith, who interceded for Sodom and rescued Lot. Like Abraham, Peter urges believers to make a difference in this world for God and for good. All of us are called to be part of God's Rescue Squad, who throw out the lifeline, who fulfill our part of the Great Commission. Many of us have been strangers at some time in our lives, newcomers to a certain city or community. After living for awhile in a place, people usually become more and more comfortable. They adjust, and may even adopt some of the customs and traditions of their new home. In time, they no longer feel like strangers.

Yet Scripture warns us not to become too comfortable here on earth. The Bible does not promise us comfortable lives. It teaches us that our lives on earth are temporary, and that, spiritually speaking, even when we are in the world we are not of it. It informs us of the comfort that comes from knowing that we belong to Jesus.

A company once sent pamphlets in the mail, containing the phrase: "an investment in paradise." No place on earth is a "paradise." In reality, we make an investment in the true Paradise when we commit our lives to Jesus. Paradise is the place where we will never again feel alone, out of place, discouraged, or sad. And as we travel there, we pray: "I am a stranger on earth.... Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your law.... Your decrees are the theme of my song wherever I lodge" (119:18,19a,54). AMEN.

 

[BigBen]

Amen serb

 

[Braaq]

I cant keep posing in this thread, its too easy for me to continue to pewn you religious one's
You guys are not proving anything , and we are obviously not pushing our logical thinking on you... so I say:

/Thread end

 

[Flex]

Arcane was trying to say earlier how we are too close-minded to understand his religion, but I think he forgets that the majority of us were raised as Christians. Braaq, high_five, myself, and several others here attended church every Sunday at one point of our life. Hell, both Tech and I were students of Catholic schools for many years. We just got older and wiser.

 

[SerbMarko]

Arcane was trying to say earlier how we are too close-minded to understand his religion, but I think he forgets that the majority of us were raised as Christians. Braaq, high_five, myself, and several others here attended church every Sunday at one point of our life. Hell, both Tech and I were students of Catholic schools for many years. We just got older and wiser.

I for one am not trying to change anyone's mind or play a game of I owned you, you owned me.. i just want to express my passion and hopefully also get to know others views and understand them just like I would like to be understood for my views..