God caused Katrina because of sin

[Braaq]

for as smart as you are and as much respect i have for you on these boards, you are very out of line here. your outright mockery of bigben's, serb's, mine and many others religion is not only insulting but childish. your question of where geographically heaven is is not getting a response because it does not warrant one. this is a matter of faith. not everything can be proved with science and just because it seems impossible does not meen it is as such. heaven is based on the premise that when your soul leaves this earth, it is judged by God. it is not a tangible place in this lifetime.

seriously your better than this.


and what your doing IS mockery, don't reword it otherwise.

I for one need answers rather than people's "faith". At one time everyone knew and had faith that the world was flat. That clearly is not the case (just an example)
Science can almost solve everything, with PROOF/EVIDENCE! There are a few holes missing but realize that modern science is (in retrospect) very new, where as religion is very old and gives rediculous answers for phenomenons that could not be explained. Now that we can explain almost all of them with science, why do we still believe in some supernatural deity? Because its a tradition, and I for one do not follow something with no proof because mankind wants to believe there is an afterlife or a "God" that loves us and will protect us.

 

[Braaq]

That is evolution WITHIN species, i didnt say that didnt exsist. i said i want to see evolution of one species into an entirely diffenrent species. For example a monkey turning into a human being.

What im saying is that if you do not believe in God you have no other option other than to believe in another theory for the beginning of the universe, and how everything was created.

In this case you must acknowledge a prime mover. Who/ what is it?

So your falling into the same premise that started religion. Since we do not have the answer as of yet we should answer it by saying "God, did it"...?????
For an intelligent person why would you do that? That rediculous to make an answer up like that, evolution is a relatively new idea and we are closing the gaps more and more.

 

[Flex]

So what if God answered your prayer and manifested Himself into a physical form, ate pizza with you, and watched the game. What problems might that cause? What are the consequences? I dont know the anwser to any of those questions i just asked.

Sweet, I'm coming over to your place tomorrow James.

Just make sure you order extra pizza, we don't know if God is on a bulk.

 

[BigBen]

Actually, I was just being a dick.

Listen Ben, I have no problem with someone saying "I'm not sure how to answer that question, but that's what I believe." It's when someone says "No, you're wrong because God said this and this and that," acting like you were there to witness his words.

Have you ever played the game where you whisper something to one child and he passes it to another through about twenty other kids? Then you see what the final child comes out with, which is almost never what the first child said. Think of it like that, only thousands of years later. Nobody has all the facts about Christianity, you're going by other people's words; So don't act like you do.


Come to think of it, I could of had a lot of fun with that game.

"pssssssssst, hey Flex...I love teddy bears"

"pssssssssst, hey Mary...Big black cock"

*Mary runs out of the room screaming*

That is where the legitimacy and authenticity of the documents of what the bible is made up of come into place. Research this. Find documentaries that give an unbiased opinion on the matter. Find literature of where they actually came from and make sue your literature is legit. Understand the process a historical document must go through to be legit. Their are rues to this just like their are rules to testing prescription drugs. Understand these things before you make a judgment call.

I challenge you to research them the next time you have a question, dont ask me. Go out and find the answer for yourself, it will hold a much stronger meaning to you if you do.

 

[Ironslave]

Dude if u think the bible contradicts itself you are interpreting it horribly wrong first off. You are in no position education wise to read the bible correctly if u see contradictions. Religion/theology can be studied for a life time just like anything else and not be fully understood. So for a NOOB like yourself to think u can comprehend it is laughable. Thats like a first grader walking into an advanced physics class and saying it doesnt make sense so it must be wrong.

U think u can understand something as complex as religion by reading a few biased reviews from someone who doesnt have the comprehension to review theological documents and says they contradict themseves. I say that you have more faith than I do.

Then please, look at the passages I posted, and tell me why they aren't contradictions

I CHOOSE to believe! I have my own reasons and my own experiences for why i believe. I am not a fool. I will say this again only to give credit to my reasoning faculties. I score genius on every IQ test i have taken. my score ranges from 134-142. Regardless of the test, state issued, PHD certified, ect ect. I understand. That's the single point i am making by stating what i j did. So to say i blindly follow something is insulting.

IQ tests are just silly dude. I truly believe that almost everyone is roughly the same level of intelligence, but just differ in knowledge. For example, I've been reading at a graduate level of Physiology since my first year university, yet I got a 50 in Calculus. Does that make me intelligent, or stupid, or both?

Regardless though, Christian views are just an example of conditioning which is based on one's environment. Religious beliefs are so much a product of one's environment and the values of that community. Why is Biblical Christianity right, and why is Qur'an Islam wrong? Why do many of the people in some countries (America) believe one religion (Christianity), yet another (Israel) believes in another (Judaism), which another (Afghanistan) believes in another (Islam), India and Hindu, Buan & Buddhism, etc?? Which is right?

 

[Tech]

best thing to ever come out of Kansas....

Flying Spaghetti Monster > Jesus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

 

[Duality]

I for one need answers rather than people's "faith". At one time everyone knew and had faith that the world was flat. That clearly is not the case (just an example)
Science can almost solve everything, with PROOF/EVIDENCE! There are a few holes missing but realize that modern science is (in retrospect) very new, where as religion is very old and gives rediculous answers for phenomenons that could not be explained. Now that we can explain almost all of them with science, why do we still believe in some supernatural deity? Because its a tradition, and I for one do not follow something with no proof because mankind wants to believe there is an afterlife or a "God" that loves us and will protect us.

i see where your coming from and it makes sense. but there is no need to bash one's faith with condescending snide remarks, that's all. "if i pray to God will he come over and watch the game?"....c'mon unneccesary.

good post though braaq.

 

[BigBen]

So your falling into the same premise that started religion. Since we do not have the answer as of yet we should answer it by saying "God, did it"...?????
For an intelligent person why would you do that? That rediculous to make an answer up like that, evolution is a relatively new idea and we are closing the gaps more and more.

That is where the theology of God comes into play. God is timeless, He has always, does, and will forever exist. That is part of what/who God is, existence. Their was no need for creation because God has always existed.

Evolution should really be called adaptation. A single species does not evolve into an entirely new species. All their is proof of is evolution to adapt to surroundings. Sounds like a very intelligent design for a creature does it not?

 

[Braaq]

i see where your coming from and it makes sense. but there is no need to bash one's faith with condescending snide remarks, that's all. "if i pray to God will he come over and watch the game?"....c'mon unneccesary.

good post though braaq.

Thanks bro, I agree but I think IS's remarks are from comments made by Serb or BigBen, and is just playing off what they said. I am sure IS had no intention of being insulting or disrespectful, but rather makeing a mockery or joke out of previous comments.

 

[Ironslave]

What are your beliefs?

The same as this

I wouldn't say I have faith in it, but it appears to be the most intelligent retrospect.

Although unlikely, I believe in the possibility of a higher power.

......

Sweet, I'm coming over to your place tomorrow James.

Just make sure you order extra pizza, we don't know if God is on a bulk.

Okay cool man, sorry about texting you drunk last weekend pretending to be Braaq. But since God controls everything, I guess he made me do it, maybe you can ask him why when he's here. Going back to the original point of the thread, I'm sure he's a Lakers fan, just look at Katrina to illustrate how much he hates those sinners in New Orleans!!!

 

[Braaq]

Okay cool man, sorry about texting you drunk last weekend pretending to be Braaq. But since God controls everything, I guess he made me do it, maybe you can ask him why when he's here. Going back to the original point of the thread, I'm sure he's a Lakers fan, just look at Katrina to illustrate how much he hates those sinners in New Orleans!!!

Wait....what??

 

[BigBen]

Then please, look at the passages I posted, and tell me why they aren't contradictions

If you give me the book and the verses i will try to give you a better understanding of them. The problem with alot of these "contradictions" is that they are snips and pieces of what the entire story/perable are really about. Its like when ron paul says something and as a whole statement it makes perfect sense, but when the media gets a hold of it they twist it and edit it to mean something entirely different and then Ron gets accused of something he didnt really say bc it was taken out of context.

IQ tests are just silly dude. I truly believe that almost everyone is roughly the same level of intelligence, but just differ in knowledge. I agree. Some people are able to understand the entrie rocess of things and doe much better at other things tan other people. The point i was making is that i have very capeable reasoning faculties. For example, I've been reading at a graduate level of Physiology since my first year university, yet I got a 50 in Calculus. Does that make me intelligent, or stupid, or both?
That depends on how fast you were able to memorize and comprehend the physiology information. Thats really what IQ deals more with is how fast can you learn something and conceptualize it to be able to use it in a real life situation, so you can also build on it with the understanding you have. You would say Person A can learn algebra in 5 minutes but person B has to take 2 hours to study the same material. Person A has a higher IQ. Thats the point i was trying to make with flex. I can understand and conceptualize material just fine, Thank God. What good is the IQ if a person refuses to learn information?
Regardless though, Christian views are just an example of conditioning which is based on one's environment. Religious beliefs are so much a product of one's environment and the values of that community. Why is Biblical Christianity right, and why is Qur'an Islam wrong? Because of Jesus' claims. He is the way the truth and the light.Why do many of the people in some countries (America) believe one religion (Christianity) bc of sociological factors, yet another (Israel) believes in another (Judaism), which another (Afghanistan) believes in another (Islam), India and Hindu, Buan & Buddhism, etc?? Which is right?
The only one that is right is the one tat claims to be. The one thats is the way the truth and the light. The one that has historical authenticity and prophecies that fulfill themselves hundreds of years after they were written. The one whose documents all point in the direction of being truthful, and being who they say they are (Jesus) The one that can stand alone and rely only on itself! (koran refrences the bible) It takes faith, but not blind faith by any means.

 

[BigBen]

Okay cool man, sorry about texting you drunk last weekend pretending to be Braaq. But since God controls everything, I guess he made me do it, maybe you can ask him why when he's here. Going back to the original point of the thread, I'm sure he's a Lakers fan, just look at Katrina to illustrate how much he hates those sinners in New Orleans!!!

This last paragraph is just completely blended and mixed with different points of view religiously and theologically that it is no reason why you have questions and misunderstandings of Christianity. Just like anything else in life the best way to learn about it is to experience it and learn about it by living it.

 

[SerbMarko]

Just wondering... is God going to be coming down to earth again anytime soon?? Because I was going to have a bunch of people over tomorrow night to watch the Lakers game, it'd be cool if he decided to come.

yes, Jesus will be coming back one last time for the final judgment..

 

[Braaq]

yes, Jesus will be coming back one last time for the final judgment..

Well hopefully its not during the Lakers game That would just ruin his night



Anyways, I for one have complete respect for your and BigBen's beliefs and faith in God. It is a testament of character to believe in something and follow it so consistently, and I am sure it makes you better people in the end. I may not agree with many of the statements but I am not trying to say that yall believing in what you do is a bad thing. I just like to debate

 

[SerbMarko]

Yes

http://www.carm.org/islam/sin_offends.htm

 

[SerbMarko]

Because Jesus IS Lord.
Mary being conceived without sin is the immaculate conception. That does not make the Bible 100% wrong. The conception of Mary, the mother of Jesus without any stain of original sin in her mothers womb. From the first moment of her existence Mary was preserved by God from the lack of sanctifying grace that afflicts mankind. Mary was instead filled with divine grace. It is further believed that Mary lived a life free from sin. Mary calls Jesus Lord because that is what Jesus is, He is Lord. I want to address this also because i remember you saying Christians pray to Mary. Christians do not worship Mary. All we have done is repeat the words found in the bible about Mary.

http://www.dtl.org/catholicism/article/hail_mary/part-1.htm

I dont praise the pope. I do read the bible. Mary is the mother of all people as deemed by Jesus on His cross.

if you read the bible then clearly you dont understand it because Mary was a sinner.

yes its a copy and paste.. but how does that make a difference IS?

Proof of her being a sinner

Firstly, all men have sinned, including Mary, and fallen short of the glory of God [Rom 3:23], and through one man sin entered the world and death spread to all men [Rom 5:12]. King David writing in Psalms says that he was brought forth in iniquity and in sin when his mother conceived him - biblical proof of mankinds sinful nature from the time of conception. [Psa 51:5]. According to the law of Moses every mother that conceived, either a male or female, had to after an appointed time offer sacrifices to God: one as a burnt offering, and one as a sin offering [Lev.12]. Mary, after conceiving Jesus made these sacrifices in accordance and obedience to the Law God gave to Moses. This is clearly indicated to us in the book of Luke chap. 2 ver. 21-24, as Mary applies this very observance as is required of every Jewish woman who conceives her first born son. Read Leviticus 12 is first, understand what is being said, then read Luke 2:21-24. Once reading and understanding what is being said, it is clear that the offering Mary offers makes according to ... law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons. [Lk.2:24], ... the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: ... [Lev. 12:8]. The sin offering Mary gives is sufficient evidence Mary's carnality.

In need of a Saviour

Other proof of Mary being a sinner is found when Mary declares the need of a saviour. One is only in need of a saviour when realizing they are helpless and hopeless; that God in Christ having paid the penalty for the sins of mankind, is the One in Whom we are able to find redemption. [Col.1:12-14]. Mary also said, "My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour" [Luke 1:46,47]. Again, Mary admits her estate as the handmaiden of God and not "Mother of God". Admiting her estate as a handmaiden because God used her instrumentally as a vessel to conceive the Lord Jesus Christ. By Mary s own words, she removes any idea of pre-emanance so as not to assume exaltation above God s calling upon her life. "For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed" [Luke 1:48].

Had more than four children

The Scriptures catergorically state the family Jesus had, and that Mary did conceive after the birth of Jesus. She never remained a virgin, and can never be considered "immaculate" as the Roman Catholic Church has exalteded her to be. "Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?" (Mat 13:55,56).

Not Mediatrix

Mary as mediatrix is unfounded in Scripture. Scripture tells us who makes intercession for the saints before the Father.

There are two mediators in Scripture, who are:

Firstly, the Lord Jesus Christ.

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to
continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. [Heb 7:22-25].

Secondly, the Holy Spirit.

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. [Rom 8:26,27].

 

[SerbMarko]

dinosaurs and man

http://www.carm.org/evo_questions/dinosaurs.htm

 

[SerbMarko]

Ben, here is more biblical proof that Mary was a sinner..

http://www.carm.org/catholic/fullofgrace.htm

 

[lifterdead]

Its like i typed earlier. You can believe that Jesus is everything He said he was, and is/ will forever be. You can believe that Jesus is the one the prophecies were about, and strongly suggest He is. These documents are their they are part of history! Yu cant say a document is not part of history when it is. HISTORICALLY JESUS IS WHO HE SAID HE WAS OR HE IS NOT? He never claimed to be anything else other than what he did. Jesus can not be classified as something he never claimed to be. He either is the God the Son and all the prophecies that are written down on documents that are part of history that spoke of Him before His time, or He is not. He can not be ;looked at as a philosopher, or any thing else that He did not claim to be.

I can have any opinion of Jesus I want, including the idea that he was a philosopher. I could look at him as a defunct peace activist, too. Doesn't make a difference, since you're unwilling to examine other interpretations.


But before we get dragged off into a series of rants, let's just stop. I think it's clear we won't get anywhere debating with each other.